the problem with undead (last commands, free will and low-lying prairies)

[Vahktang]

Once the creator/commander is dead, the zombies are free of control.
But still mindless.
So they obey the last order they got.
They attack those that attack them.
And may even signal the others to also attack.
And if they keep digging without supports, the cavern will collapse.
Maybe even upon them.

My $.02.

More later,

Vahktang

 

[jasper]

...
But then if "uncontrolled" undead stop following their last orders, how do you explain all of those adventures where undead are standing and guarding ... places where their original "masters" are CENTURIES dead, and therefore no longer "in control"?

To fit with the logic of how the game world works, the zombies MUST keep on following their last orders, regardless of control. Otherwise you have 30 years of adventures that just don't make sense.

HUMM change that quote to this..
You have 30 years of adventures that just don't make sense.

 

[barsoomcore]

Now the question becomes how did this wizard acquire the zombies of 40,000 ANCIENT RED DRAGONS?!

DM fiat is a wonderful thing.

 

[Altalazar]

HUMM change that quote to this..
You have 30 years of adventures that just don't make sense.

To use "gasp" a lawyer tool: if you have 30 years of precedent, it doesn't matter what the "rules" or the "contract" says - what is done in practice overrides - and THAT is a rule. In other words, if the rules in 3.x say otherwise, they are wrong and the 30 years take precedent - especially with many 3.x adventures continuing to follow the same precedent.

 

[GreyShadow]

Now the question becomes how did this wizard acquire the zombies of 40,000 ANCIENT RED DRAGONS?!

Suicide pact.

 

[alsih2o]

The geology isn't the big issue. A druid has pretty good mastery over elements - Soften Earth, Stone Shape, Lower Water, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, Move Earth, Earthquake, and the various Summon Nature's Ally spells should give the druid reasonable ability to control the situation and/or close the tunnel.

Especially when you figure that it takes a while to fill an entire prairie. Say the tunnel is a standard 10' square job. Assuming I've done my math right, if the water moves through the tunnel at about 22 miles per hour (which is quick for water - faster than most of us can run on the flat), then it'll take an entire day to make a modest lake ten feet deep and one mile square. How many square miles is an entire prairie? How long before the druid notices what's up and stops it using the above spells?

all excellent, mind if i ask what happens if the tunnel is 25x12?

 

[Umbran]

all excellent, mind if i ask what happens if the tunnel is 25x12?

The new tunnel has 3 times the cross sectional area of the old one. It therefore will move three times the amount of water...

It will fill that 1 square mile lake in a day if the water is moving at a lazy 7 mph or so.

Or, it can fill a 1 mile square, 10 foot deep lake in 8 hours, if the water is moving at the original 22 mph. It'll fill a square lake 1.7 miles on a side (or a circular lake of about a mile radius) in one day. That does *not* mean the lake wil be 2 miles in radius in two days.

There's loads of ways to make the water move faster - I figure that you can have it move as fast or slow as you like - though making the water super-sonic would be stretching plausibility, I think.

The other plausibility issue is that while you don't have "air resistance" you do get friction with the sides of the pipe. Again, you can set your water speed as you wish, but unless that pipe is really smooth sided and intended to carry water, you'll see lots and lots of erosion. Eventually, the thing will collapse itself.

 

[Pants]

Now the question becomes how did this wizard acquire the zombies of 40,000 ANCIENT RED DRAGONS?!

Magic.

 

[Nail]

It could come out a lot faster if the zombies were tunneling at a slight angle. If they broke into the ocean close to the bottom or even worse keep tunneling into the oceanic plate to appear in the deep ocean. A lot of pressure with no air resistance issues..

Errr....

The depth at which the undead tunnelers reach the ocean is irrelevant. The deciding factor is the relative altitudes.

Sorry...reality trying to break thru. Carry on......

 

[Steverooo]

It could come out a lot faster if the zombies were tunneling at a slight angle. If they broke into the ocean close to the bottom or even worse keep tunneling into the oceanic plate to appear in the deep ocean. A lot of pressure with no air resistance issues.

Water flows downhill, JG. If you push the straw into the bottom of the glass, water doesn't come shooting out the top of the straw, it only rises within the straw until it rises as high as the water outside the straw...

Even if you put your finger over the end, to keep the air in and water out, and then remove it, the water only shoots a little bit higher, as it rushes in, and then falls back...

So, if the tunnel reaches the sea, water will only flow into it IF the valley is BELOW Sea Level (like death valley), and even then, will only rise to sea level (now very minutely decreased, world-wide, becase the percentage of the globe covered has increased).