The proper role of supporting NPCs?

[marune]

IMHO, the best way to deal with powerful NPCs, especialy allies, is to put their presence in play in player's hand.

Dumbledore kind of NPCs can be viewed as a real pain for many players if they are used by the DM to bully the PCs around (Gods are even worse!).

Read/Watch again Harry Potter, and think that each time Dumbledore appears, it's because Harry's player called on Harry relationship with him, including when he do a "deus ex machina" at the Minister of Magic (book 5).

The same kind of relationship can be used with Gods in settings, like FR.

 

[billd91]

One of the most common critiques leveled at high-level NPCs in established settings is that they steal the spotlight from the players, and can serve as a deus ex machina, or otherwise take on the "real" threats while the PCs are involved with the lesser villains.

What, then, is the proper role for the powerful gray-bearded wizard who's old enough to be the PCs' grandfather? What role can he, or a similar character play, that the players can accept and who also materially contributes to the plot?

From my point of view, the proper role of the NPC is whatever works for the adventure/story at hand. If the story at hand involves saving the world, who's to say that other NPCs aren't also working on the same problem from a different angle? Or who happened to be tied down with another problem? There's no need to take the spotlight from the PCs, after all, the spotlight is on them for a reason. That doesn't prevent there being action in the darkened areas of the stage. It's just that the actions going on there aren't the focus of the game.
Sprinkle some rumors, stories, tales of daring-do that derive from the actions those other NPCs are currently performing and you help add to the idea of your world being a living world, one that has an existence beyond the immediate horizons of the PCs.

 

[Parlan]

From my point of view, the proper role of the NPC is whatever works for the adventure/story at hand. If the story at hand involves saving the world, who's to say that other NPCs aren't also working on the same problem from a different angle? Or who happened to be tied down with another problem? There's no need to take the spotlight from the PCs, after all, the spotlight is on them for a reason. That doesn't prevent there being action in the darkened areas of the stage. It's just that the actions going on there aren't the focus of the game.
Sprinkle some rumors, stories, tales of daring-do that derive from the actions those other NPCs are currently performing and you help add to the idea of your world being a living world, one that has an existence beyond the immediate horizons of the PCs.

I guess I'm just a jealous b*stard, but when I'm playing, I want NPCs involved as little as possible.

I'm cool with a throw away line like:
DM: "You hear rumors that [Some Organization for Good] is also trying to defeat the [Horrible Icky Badness] over in [Distant Town/Kingdom/Continent], but they haven't had much success yet either. Now what do you want to do?"

So as a DM, I try to keep all of the NPCs out of the limelight as much as possible. They might have a library they PCs can use, or can answer a discrete question the PCs have, but generally, I want the PCs to use their own skills discover the location of the McGuffin, solve the mystery etc.

 

[Quartz]

There's always the 'show, don't tell method'. Make the archmage or whatever active. He's got to go off and kill the dragon, but while he's doing that, he wants the PCs to oust the ogres. It needs doing and he hasn't got the time. Then, when they come back, he's enchanting the dragon's eyes as crystal balls, and gives the PCs one of the teeth he's made into a dagger. Then, when the characters have risen in level, their patron can be defeated or die or whatever and the PCs have to face the threat alone.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One thought occur to me:
If there are powerful NPCs, don't make the "world-wide" threat apparent until the PCs have achieved the same power as the NPCs.

This still requires the NPCs to have a level of power that doesn't make them omniscient. They must be able to miss some stuff, and as such, divination magic might need to be handled with care. As do the NPCs "high level" connections - if the gods can just inform him of any big threat, he will reasonably want to deal with it immediately.

Keeping the NPCs busy with other world-saving business doesn't sound like a good plan. It still steals some spotlight - the PCs just thwart one of many crises.

Otherwise, I think NPCs work best if they really don't have the power to deal with the threats the PCs ask them to do. The most powerful established NPC Cleric in Eberron only has her powers while she is near the Silver Flame. Even if she is fully aware of a great threat looming over there, she needs someone to do it for her.
A little less contrived is it to use use "non-combat" NPCs - kings, princes, lords and mayors are wealthy and might even have their own army, but this kind of power can't be bring to bear everywhere. They can't do it themself anywahy, and sending troops doesn't solve all problems, and sometimes create new one. (Investigating a cult? An army can't help you. Finding an assassin that fled to another country? An army is a great way to start a war with the country, but is that what the king really wants?)

 

[Fenes]

One of my "rules" is to not show the NPC's power aka level unless there's no other way. The PCs may hear of the reputation and deeds of NPCs, but not in a way that the players could reverse-engineer the NPC's level. And of course telling the players straight away that whatever is written in the campaign setting doesn't have to be true in my campaign.

So, Elminster has a big reputation, but he could be a level 5 wizard IMC with good ties to the bardic colleges. The Simbul is powerful - of course she is, she's the Queen of Alagond. And personally defeating dozens of Red Wizards? Of course she did, just as the PCs killing a dozen orcs is lauded as "stemming the tide of the great orc horde" by the town bard.

Cutting down on spells like teleport (restricted to a specific and costly prestige class in my campaign) and raise dead (basically inexistent and replaced by direct divine intervention) and similar spells that are sought by PCs and which would make it easy to guess minimum levels helps too.

So, most of the visible power of an NPC is "Indirect power" - influence, followers, contacts, money, etc. - and not direct combat/magic power. Which means it's logical that they'd rely on hired help for dangerous work.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Here's my suggestion: Portray them as overworked managers.

Real world corporate executives, government leaders, and other rich and powerful people have time schedules just crowded with appointments. Their most limited resource is their time (which is why these people tend to have their private jets - it's often not a luxury, but a necessity for their line of work), and they need to be able to work as efficiently as possible to get any work done at all.

Unless the crisis is truly major, they can't just drop everything and help out the PCs with whatever little problem they might have at the moment. After all, they have all sorts of crises to deal with. Furthermore, they all tend to accumulate all sorts of enemies, so they might walk right into some sort of trap if they get into such a situation unprepared. Granted, it's not a very likely scenario, but it does tend to give them pause.

So they will grateful towards any PCs who take a particular problem off their hands - and will become seriously upset with PCs who waste their time. Every time the PCs meet one of these people, drop a few hints just how precious their time is - secretaries and spies handing them sheets with the latest information, incoming crystal ball messages, other people barging in and demanding their attention, and so on.

This will make it possible for high-level NPCs to exist in your campaign world without them constantly looming over the shoulders of your PCs.

 

[Fenes]

That still creates the problem of players asking "How on earth did that guy ever survive until now if he can't see that stopping a demon invasion takes precedence over adminstration concerns? If he can't make time for this then he won't have a population to administrate tomorrow!".

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

That still creates the problem of players asking "How on earth did that guy ever survive until now if he can't see that stopping a demon invasion takes precedence over adminstration concerns? If he can't make time for this then he won't have a population to administrate tomorrow!".

How common are demon invasions in your world that that would be a frequent concern?

And frankly, once a demon invasion occurs, fighting it back will be a major administrative effort. After all, someone has to organize the multiple groups fighting it, just as a general has to organize an army to fight opposing armies. And who would be better qualified than someone with the vast experience of the NPC? That leaves the player characters to fulfill the rather more fun role of strike teams.

During times where no demon invasions occur, the NPC will still do the best to nip them in the bud. But he can't do that all by himselves because there are just too many hints and potential threats out there - and he really can't spend a couple of days or even weeks chasing down a particular lead. That's where other, less powerful people come in - such as the player characters.

 

[Fenes]

The "Demon Invasion" is just a stand in for "major crisis that would be (easily) solved by powerful NPC".

It's all nice and well to have NPCs buried in red tape, but it doesn't make sense for them not to take action in many cases if they are high-level.

If say a goblin tribe is massacring farmers in the eastern provinces, then a powerful wizard could simply teleport the party there. And if he can do that, maybe help with scrying as well? And maybe scry first, teleport there second, fireball the lot of them third? After all, lives are at stake. And doesn't he have asisstants who can handle red tape for a day or two?

Once the PCs are past the beginner levels, and the scope of their adventures is widening, then it gets harder and harder to justify NPC inaction.

That's why I prefer not to show players that ruler X is a high-level whatever. Less "but as a paladin he cannot let those people die! And he has a wizard friend who could help too!" arguments - which are often perfectly in-character. The NPCs can be tied up in red tape too, but I'd rather not enter discussions whether or not threat X should be enough for the hero NPC to change his daily schedule or not.