Mal Malenkirk
First Post
Speaking of heads up ; Mal is all glued up. If anyone has powers that allow for an instant save, I'm all ears.
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The Retaking of Forgehold OOC-4E (Full)
- Thread starter Charwoman Gene
- Start date
Shalimar
First Post
It may not affect your role as a defender much, but it does affect the striker role (especially rogue), and the controller role even more then that.
Here is a better example:
Init: Mal 22, Mira 17, Angel 19, Dragon 15
Mal and Angel attack the dragon their turn (posted before Mira), Mira uses her encounter power to Daze the dragon until the end of her next turn.
2nd Round, Mira attacks (first to post) after Mira is done, the Dragon is no longer dazed, so it doesn't grant combat advantage to Mal and Angel. Depending on what they are trying to do, losing that simply because of positing order is a major thing.
2nd example: Same situation as above, only this time, Mira attacks first, then Mal or Angel Daze the Dragon. 2nd Round, the person who dazes the dragon posts first ending the daze. At this point the combat advantage from the Daze is gone, and Mira doesn't get to use her sneak attack for the +2d6 damage. Very big problem.
For those of us whose roles' depend on this stuff, it is crippling.
Here is a better example:
Init: Mal 22, Mira 17, Angel 19, Dragon 15
Mal and Angel attack the dragon their turn (posted before Mira), Mira uses her encounter power to Daze the dragon until the end of her next turn.
2nd Round, Mira attacks (first to post) after Mira is done, the Dragon is no longer dazed, so it doesn't grant combat advantage to Mal and Angel. Depending on what they are trying to do, losing that simply because of positing order is a major thing.
2nd example: Same situation as above, only this time, Mira attacks first, then Mal or Angel Daze the Dragon. 2nd Round, the person who dazes the dragon posts first ending the daze. At this point the combat advantage from the Daze is gone, and Mira doesn't get to use her sneak attack for the +2d6 damage. Very big problem.
For those of us whose roles' depend on this stuff, it is crippling.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
Well, YMMV, but in both these examples, if I were the source of the criplling effect, I'd make sure to wait and post last for the round in order to let my buddies exploit the effect. Otherwise, more than screwing them, I'd be screwing myself.
You don't have to post as soon as you can, you know.
You don't have to post as soon as you can, you know.
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Shalimar
First Post
Mal Malenkirk said:
PBP games are already slower than tabletop games, having to play the waiting game to make sure a specific person acts before you do would bog the game down to a ridiculous degree and make an already slow process take much longer.
Its not a YMMV situation its a lets cripple the other players and make the game drag on so long to accomplish each round that it kills all interest. If this is the way that we are going to be handling initiative, Mira will not be able to fulfill her striker role and will be completely crippled, and I know I will lose interest rather rapidly with playing the waiting game of when should I post? In that case, I will be bowing out because it really is that big of an issue.
Graf
Explorer
As an outside observer (or an alt at least) I suppose I thought I'd mention that:
I've done this for parts of my KotS. 4e really drags otherwise. (Everyone posts while they're waiting for one person, that person does something -> triggers immediate actions -> the monsters are in different positions.
Suddenly half of the actions don't make sense. So wait for everyone to repost, and then that triggers something else, etc etc).
Pretty soon everyone is waiting to post, etc etc.
But I agree that it penalizes people with high initiatives.
You could enforce initiative rigidly for the first couple of rounds, and then just have the monsters delay together (it happens naturally actually, at least it has in the game so far). Once the monsters are in a clump you can just start having posts take effect as they happen.
Just the alts two cents...
I've done this for parts of my KotS. 4e really drags otherwise. (Everyone posts while they're waiting for one person, that person does something -> triggers immediate actions -> the monsters are in different positions.
Suddenly half of the actions don't make sense. So wait for everyone to repost, and then that triggers something else, etc etc).
Pretty soon everyone is waiting to post, etc etc.
But I agree that it penalizes people with high initiatives.
You could enforce initiative rigidly for the first couple of rounds, and then just have the monsters delay together (it happens naturally actually, at least it has in the game so far). Once the monsters are in a clump you can just start having posts take effect as they happen.
Just the alts two cents...
Atanatotatos
First Post
I'd say we can use a bit of casa-by-case judgement. For example, if there is a there is thoufgh encounter with a number of monsters grouped, it makes sense to wait for Arden to lay down a daily area effct (eg Sleep) so that allies aren't in the area. If there is a solo, it makes sense to wait for Mira and Angel to seriously debuff the bbeg... on the other hand, in a combat like the one we're currently having, it doesn't probably really make A LOT of difference. no?
Atanatotatos
First Post
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
Atanatotatos said:
Its kind of how I've been rolling.
I'm not suicidal, I'm not going to step in the middle of a potential blast area.
Beyond screwing Arden, it would mean Mal has just surrounded himself by enemies. Weee.
But really, as far as Area effect are concerned, The important thing is getting them off before the monsters move. Even if Mal charges, he'll typically hit the front.
E : empty space
X : Enemy
M : Mal
X
EXX
Mal will do :
X
EXX
EM
You can still blast them all without catching Mal.
I won't do :
X
MXX
If I do that, blast me. I deserve it!
Note that in a scenario like that, being the smart cat that I am, I would likely have targeted a non-minion if possible, to optimize Arden's upcoming blast. That way the team gets 4 attack roll (1 Mal + 3 Arden) VS just 3 (1 Mal, kills a minion, 2 arden) which leads to wasted damage potential on the non-minion. And if it's ALL minion, I'll just wait wor your blast period. You post often enough that it's no biggie.
*tapping his head*
Not just a hat rack, my friends.
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Atanatotatos
First Post
Man, I have to say, you've got an attitude1
Anyway, gene, what exactly do you want to discuss? The initiative issue, i guess. Something else?
Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
Okay, I want to discuss the PbP logistics a little.
I see three issues that need hashing out.
Initiative:
Do we do initiative strict, resolving actions in rolled order?
Do we do initiative in posting order?
Do we do initiative in a "best case" discussion based ordering using "delaying" as the justification?
Narrative Control:
If your action is nullified by another's action, does then DM modify your action or does he wait till you modify it? or does everyone post a Gigantic list of If/Then/Else actions?
Tactical Mapping/Updating:
How critical is having an agreed upon tactical map?
Do you want/need the ability to move your token and see more realtime by connecting to a computer running a maptool server?
Let me know what you care about/don't care about. We need to see if there are any rifts.
Me personally? I think the "extreme tactical" viewpoint is very flawed for 4e. the more I read the ruoles the more they look like guidelines that should be mushed when appropriate. I don't think we need to be super precise with initiative, and I'd personally prefer to just use plain ol text to set the scene and describe the combat. I also need a little control to modify character interaction. None of this is a deal breaker.
I see three issues that need hashing out.
Initiative:
Do we do initiative strict, resolving actions in rolled order?
Do we do initiative in posting order?
Do we do initiative in a "best case" discussion based ordering using "delaying" as the justification?
Narrative Control:
If your action is nullified by another's action, does then DM modify your action or does he wait till you modify it? or does everyone post a Gigantic list of If/Then/Else actions?
Tactical Mapping/Updating:
How critical is having an agreed upon tactical map?
Do you want/need the ability to move your token and see more realtime by connecting to a computer running a maptool server?
Let me know what you care about/don't care about. We need to see if there are any rifts.
Me personally? I think the "extreme tactical" viewpoint is very flawed for 4e. the more I read the ruoles the more they look like guidelines that should be mushed when appropriate. I don't think we need to be super precise with initiative, and I'd personally prefer to just use plain ol text to set the scene and describe the combat. I also need a little control to modify character interaction. None of this is a deal breaker.
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