The Riddle of Steel RPG

[Steverooo]

Anyone seen it/played it? Is it any good? Is combat deadlier?

 

[Emiricol]

I've wanted to try it out, but haven't found anyone nearby (story of my life!)

They give a combat example on the site somewhere that seems pretty cool. I'm so used to the 1-die roll system of D20 that it was a bit hard to follow, but I've played dicepool games before so it wasn't too difficult.

If there's an online playerbase, I might be tempted.

 

[Wombat]

Riddle of Steel is absolutely fantastic for one thing -- a simple system for accuratley playing out High/Late Renaissance sword duels.

For anything else, it is pretty well useless.

I have a particular loathing for the magic system. It is very easy to maximize your ability in magic, thus utterly overbalancing the game, without the withdrawn bookishness of Ars Magica -- wizards generally go around kicking patootie and taking names. Their single limiting factor is that if they screw up magic they age. Yawn. If you are good enough you will never age significantly, thus the limit goes away.

OTOH, it is wildly popular with people who want "realistic" (i.e. Very Bloody And Quite Serious, No We Mean It, You Will Probably Die) combat. Unless you surrender fast, one or the other character in combat will never be able to fight again, period. I mean EVER. Even if you recover, you probably have deep wounds that would prevent you from ever picking up a sword again. All this assumes that you are not dead, of course, which is far more likely.

The combat system is deadly and realistic; the mitigating factor are the SAs (essentiall emotional traits) which are High Fantasy, Arthurian and Romantic in tone, thus creating a fantastic disconnect in the game.

My apologies to other people who like this game. Yes, I owned a copy. Yes, I read it all the way through. Yes, I did sample combats. And finally, YES, I DID play it in a short (3 session) campaign run by someone who liked it.

You are welcome to like it; I am welcome to loath it.

 

[kenjib]

Riddle of Steel is absolutely fantastic for one thing -- a simple system for accuratley playing out High/Late Renaissance sword duels.

For anything else, it is pretty well useless.

First, it isn't limited to High/Late Renaissance at all, even though it supports it. There's nothing missing if you wanted to run it in a medieval period, you would just ignore the rapiers and plate armor - just like you would need to do with D&D.

Second, there's nothing about the system that makes it better for duels than any other man on man combat. Granted it's not ideal for large numbers of opponents. Is that what you mean by "duel?" You seem to be implying that it only works for people throwing down the gauntlet and challenging each other to combat. There's definitely nothing in the rules that would support that situation better than, say, attacking a guard in the middle of the night while sneaking into a castle or defending a caravan from a bandit attacker.

Third, Of Beasts and Men is a supplement that covers combat with non-human opponents, like dragons. It's a nice book too. The Flower of Battle isn't out yet, but will cover mass combat. With those two additions you are pretty much covered for everything and it still costs less than the 3 core books for D&D.

I have a particular loathing for the magic system. It is very easy to maximize your ability in magic, thus utterly overbalancing the game, without the withdrawn bookishness of Ars Magica -- wizards generally go around kicking patootie and taking names. Their single limiting factor is that if they screw up magic they age. Yawn. If you are good enough you will never age significantly, thus the limit goes away.

Yeah, the magic system is not good for people who are overly concerned about game balance or want to play games where the primary goal is being the best at killing everything. TROS is not about game balance, and it's not about being the best at killing everything. It's about character motivation and struggling for what is important to you. The spiritual attribute system that is the real driving force behind TROS makes game balance somewhat irrelevant. However, as I said, for people that are really concerned about this TROS might not be the best game. In my opinion, game balance is a myth and I'm glad to see a game that throws it out the window in a creative and effective way.

OTOH, it is wildly popular with people who want "realistic" (i.e. Very Bloody And Quite Serious, No We Mean It, You Will Probably Die) combat. Unless you surrender fast, one or the other character in combat will never be able to fight again, period. I mean EVER. Even if you recover, you probably have deep wounds that would prevent you from ever picking up a sword again. All this assumes that you are not dead, of course, which is far more likely.

The combat system is deadly and realistic; the mitigating factor are the SAs (essentiall emotional traits) which are High Fantasy, Arthurian and Romantic in tone, thus creating a fantastic disconnect in the game.

As you already seem to imply, you only die easily if you pursue actions not in keeping with your spiritual attributes. If you only fight for things that are important to you, you have a great chance for survival. I like that. It encourages people to chose their fights carefully and struggle for the things that matter to them.

I'm not sure where you get "High Fantasy, Arthurian, and Romantic in tone" from though. Could you elaborate? Spiritual Attributes are fantastic for characters like Aragorn (destiny: become king, passion: Arwen, conscience, drive: Defeat Sauron, drive: Defend the ring bearer, etc.) or any of the characters from the Princess Bride (Inigo Montoya would of course have drive: Avenge father's death) or Conan (drive: conquer, destiny: to become a great leader of men, faith: Crom, luck, etc.) or Robin Hood (drive: depose Richard, passion: Marion, conscience, luck, etc.). You could even apply it to modern fictional characters, or real life characters with no problem whatsoever. I could easily come up with my own set of Spiritual Attribues. I don't at all see how Spiritual Attributes are "High Fantasy, Arthurian, and Romantic in tone."

My apologies to other people who like this game. Yes, I owned a copy. Yes, I read it all the way through. Yes, I did sample combats. And finally, YES, I DID play it in a short (3 session) campaign run by someone who liked it.

You are welcome to like it; I am welcome to loath it.

I agree that you are welcome to dislike the game, but I think some of your reasons are valid, but others are misleading. TROS obviously is not the game for you, but some of the things you point out as flaws are strengths to those who like the game.

When you need a hammer, use a hammer. When you need a screwdriver, use a screwdriver. That's all. The important thing with TROS is to realize what the goals of the game are, because they aren't the same as the goals of D&D.

Steverooo,

Have you asked for advice on the TROS forum? Maybe you could post over there and specifically bring up any concerns you have (like combat system limitations and magic being overpowered). The responses you get might help you decide if it's the right game for you and your buddies.

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewforum.php?f=25

 

[Ezrael]

Second, there's nothing about the system that makes it better for duels than any other man on man combat. Granted it's not ideal for large numbers of opponents. Is that what you mean by "duel?" You seem to be implying that it only works for people throwing down the gauntlet and challenging each other to combat. There's definitely nothing in the rules that would support that situation better than, say, attacking a guard in the middle of the night while sneaking into a castle or defending a caravan from a bandit attacker.

It is, however, spectacularly bloody. Of the three trial combats that you ran with myself and Austin, we were either one-shot killing or maiming each other right of the bat. I believe one of those fights ended up with *both* of us butchered beyond belief.

I thought it was in interesting system, myself...I wouldn't necessarily want it to be my only game, but I'd be happy to play it from time to time.

 

[kenjib]

Yeah. Combat is brutal. That's why you've got to stack the odds - play smart.