The Ride Skill Revised

[Quickleaf]

In this article, I revise the Ride Skill, especially focusing on:
- Alternate DCs for riding manuevers
- Rules for mounting a bucking bronco
- How to do a Ride-by-Attack w/out the feat
- Alternate rules for getting knocked from the saddle
- Alternate rules for spurring

Do you have any ideas to improve the Ride skill?

What can I do with my Ride skill?
5 Stay in saddle, Guide with knees
10 Spur mount
15 Cover, Leap, Soft Fall
?? Make a sharp turn (60-75 degrees)
20 Abrupt Stop
30 Getting horse to fall prone
40 Stand on moving mount
40 Pick up an item on the ground while riding horse
70 Leap from one horse to another
70 Mount a horse moving at base speed x2 or less
80 Mount a horse moving at base speed x3 or more
80 Ride two horses at once, with a leg on each
**These DCs are still in the works. The 40+ DCs are mostly from the ELH.

Re-thinking Spurring
The SRD states that the longest a PC can run for is 1, maybe 2 minutes before needing to catch their breath. Let's look more closely. After 10 rounds of moving 120 feet per round (30 x 4), you will have gone 1200 feet in one minute. That's 72,000 feet in an hour (1200 x 60), which works out to about 13.5 mph...for 2 minutes.
Consider this: What if you just kept running for an hour? Then you would end up running a 13.5 miles (a half marathon is 13.1). The current record holder, Paul Tergat, ran a half marathon in 59 minutes and 5 seconds.
Assuming you could extend your run for 1 hour, you would beat Tergat's record. The question the SRD leaves intentionally vague is: How long can you run before getting tired?

For a human, such a feat requires difficult training, but for a horse it comes easier. Horses are designed to run. In fact, there are numerous documented cases of horses (mostly Iranian and Arabian descendants of the Tarpan) moving at high speeds for long distances.

The SRD is vague on this matter.

What about spurring? That only adds onto their existing speed. It doesn't provide a way to limit how long a horse can maintain a gallop for. When does the horse get tired?
I think the answer is to revise the spurring rules.

Extreme Long Distance: In 1935, 28 riders on Akahal-Tekes covered 2,600 miles of the most difficult terrain in 84 days. About 31 miles per day. The pure-breds arrived in significantly better condition than the Anglo-crossbreeds, but they were exhausted and in no condition to do anything except receive veterinary support and graze.
The light horse of the SRD covers 32 miles per day in normal terrain, and in hindered terrain (3/4 of movement) only covers 24 miles. The SRD light horse isn't tired according to the rules.

The ideal Ride skill, as I see it, would account for a mount growing weaker the more it was pushed. The way the Ride skill is set up now, if you push your horse too hard over a short sprint it can collapse. The ideal Ride skill would be set up so that if you push your horse too hard over a large journey it can collapse in exhaustion (and healing magic doesn't revive it). In addition, the ideal Ride skill would clarify to players just how long their horse can maintain a galloping speed for.

Any other ideas?

 

[Stalker0]

You can run a number of rounds equal to your Con score...you tehn have to make a con check every round past that (DC 10 + 1 per previous success). ONce you fail, you become fatigued and stop running.

Horses have good cons, and also have the endurance feat which gives them a +4 to those CON checks.

 

[Li Shenron]

What can I do with my Ride skill?
40 Stand on moving mount
40 Pick up an item on the ground while riding horse
70 Leap from one horse to another
70 Mount a horse moving at base speed x2 or less
80 Mount a horse moving at base speed x3 or more
80 Ride two horses at once, with a leg on each
**These DCs are still in the works. The 40+ DCs are mostly from the ELH.

I just pop in to say that these DCs are way too high IMHO. These are not really legendary deeds, as circus acrobats and movie stunts can do these as part of their job (although not with gallooping mounts, but at a reduced speed). If you revise the Ride skill to make it more useful in your games, I'd suggest you to also reduce these so that a 10th level character with maxed Ride skill can do these with a fair chance.

 

[Cherub]

I just pop in to say that these DCs are way too high IMHO. These are not really legendary deeds, as circus acrobats and movie stunts can do these as part of their job (although not with gallooping mounts, but at a reduced speed). If you revise the Ride skill to make it more useful in your games, I'd suggest you to also reduce these so that a 10th level character with maxed Ride skill can do these with a fair chance.

i second that...

c.

 

[Storyteller01]

Something else to think about. The following DC's were given (by an OGL source) for ride checks if you and the mount have an empathic/telepathic link:

Control Mount in Battle/Fight with Warhorse/Guide with Knees: -
Stay in Saddle: DC 5
Leap/Cover/Slow Fall: DC 10


The same source also recommends giving the synergy bonus from Handle animal an additional (CHa Bonus) if the rider and mount have such a link.


Here's a few other things the source lists. If the description says Emoathic +x, the linked ones get the bonus to the Ride check. If it reads Empathic w/o a bonus, a linked team can accomplish the task without a roll:

Boarding Leap (Horse to Horse): DC 20 (empathic +5)
Strong Leap: DC 20 (empathic +5)
Leaping Tackle (horse to target on ground): DC 15 (empathic)
Rearing Attack: DC 18 (empathic)
Snatch (grabbing another and putting them on your horse): DC 10 (empathic). A Grapple check has to be made if the target is unwilling.


This isn't everything listed, but it may give some good ideas.

 

[Quickleaf]

Thanks for the input on DCs. Can you tell me what OGL source you used Storyteller?

Revised Ride DCs v.1

5-- Guide with knees
10-- Sharp Turn (60-75 degrees)
15-- Cover, Leap, Soft Fall, Abrupt Stop
20-- Pick up an item on the ground, Getting horse to fall prone, Mount as a free action
25-- Mount a horse moving at x2 or less, Stand on a moving mount, Pick up a willing person on the ground (grapple check if unwilling) and swing them into saddle
30-- Mount a horse moving at x3 or more, Ride 2 horses at once, Leap from one horse to another

Performing a Move-Attack-Move without Ride-By-Attack
Thanks to whoever came up with tactic first!

Not everyone has the Ride-By-Attack. Does this mean that untrained riders can't attempt to perform this manuever? Of course they can!

Rider: Ready (a standard action) to attack an enemy when he comes within reach.
Mount: Uses its own Move action to move past an enemy.
Effect: Mount makes its move. During this move your Readied action is triggered. After your readied action is resolved, mount completes its move.

How is this different from the Ride-by-Attack feat?
1. Without the feat, you could move-attack-move (well, sort of - the mount just keeps moving and you choose when to attack) taking one attack only with no other action (giving up your normally allowed move action) and subjecting yourself to an AoO. No extra lance damage. If the AoO succeeds you lose your readied attack.
2. Without the feat, you cannot move-charge-move.
3. With the feat, you can move-charge-move and draw no AoO. Extra lance damage for charging.

Getting Knocked from the Saddle
These rules replace the DC 5 "stay in saddle" check when damaged.
Every time you are injured while in a saddle you must make a Ride check to stay in the saddle. This is a non-action. Determine the base DC on the table below. Modifiers gained through feats and special abilities can change this DC, as can special traps, or environmental conditions.

Damage Equals...............Base DC
=< Ride skill---------------- 5
Ride +1 to Ride x2---------- 10
Ride x2 +1 to Ride x3------- 15
Ride x3 +1 to Ride x4------- 20

Unwilling Horses & Staying in the Saddle
These rules replace the DC 5 "stay in saddle" check for a bucking mount. Thanks to kjenks!
1. Entering the hostile mount's square provokes an AoO (grapple step 1), unless you have a special feat, or you successfully leap from the back of a horse to another.
2. Mount the horse as a move action, or Ride check DC 20 to mount as a free action (grapple step 2).
3. Mount gets an immediate grapple check opposed by your Ride skill to buck you out of the saddle. If the mount wins, you're prone in an adjacent square and suffer a fall. If you tie, the winner is the one with highest bonus. (grapple step 3)
4. The rider must pin the hostile mount (Ride check opposed by the mount's grapple check) to get it under control. Every round, the rider must spend a move action an win an opposed Ride vs. grapple to keep the hostile mount under control. Failure means you're bucked from the saddle.

A hostile mount under a rider's control can only run, make move actions or make mounted charges. It won't attack anybody unless the rider also makes a Handle Animal check, per the Handle Animal rules.

So, under these rules, if you move in and mount up on a hostile mount, the mount gets a round of bucking (opposed grapple vs. your Ride skill) or biting (attack with natural weapon at -4, per grapple rules) to unseat you before you can get another attack action to get it under control.

NEW FEATS

Unhorse
You are particularly adept at knocking fellow mounted opponents off their horses.
Prerequisites: Mounted Combat
Benefit: While mounted, if you charge and successfully hit a mounted opponent, you can make an instant Bull Rush attempt against them. If successful, your opponent moves back, but their horse continues traveling, effectively unhorsing them.

Ranged Unhorse
You are skilled at dismounting horseback riders with a ranged weapon.
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: While using a single ranged weapon of your choice, you can unhorse a mounted opponent more easily. Add your character level to the base DC to dismount a rider when wielding this ranged weapon.

Holy Bucking Terror
Some animals just don't like a rider on their backs. Yeehaw!
Prerequisites: Horse (or other mount)
Benefit: +6 on all opposed grapple vs. ride checks to buck your rider.

 

[Quickleaf]

*bump*

I'd like to know what anyone thinks of these variant rules! When you get a chance!

 

[genshou]

I'd like to know what anyone thinks of these variant rules! When you get a chance!

Fine, fine...

Your rules seem to be fine, but I'll have to take a *real* good look to be sure. I'm just sort of skimming for now