The rules keep stealing my thunder!

[Oryan77]

I'm one of those gamers that tries to think outside of the box when playing. I like to visualize the surroundings and think of what I can do as a character to overcome a challenge taking into account the environment and anything else I can think of. I also try to make it exciting & interesting. I do this as a DM also.

But now that even players know D20 rules so well because they are so easy to learn, I find it hard sometimes to make a scenario more stimulating & exciting. I will think of a really clever & unique action for a character to do, only to find out that because of one miscellaneous rule, I can't do it without breaking the rules. I can't get away with it because the players will catch me

Sometimes as a DM, I will do something that I know will scare players into thinking the situation is going to be bad, but I don't have the intention to actually screw them over. I just want to make them think they are screwed so when they thwart my attempts, they will feel even more heroic. But it sucks when a rule gets in my way.

For example, our groups archer uses the magic bow in melee combat 24/7 thanks to Arrow Mind. I wanted to scare her a bit and do a sunder attempt on her bow. I had no intention of actually breaking the bow because they could kill the NPC before he did enough damage to destroy it. I just wanted to freak her out so that after they kill him, she'll feel like she overcame a scarier challenge than what she's used to (saving her bow rather than her life).

I've never done a Sunder before, never even seen anyone do a sunder. So all I knew of the rule was what I remembered reading in the PHB. When I announce that the NPC attacks her bow and she gets an AoO, she freaked out, "WHAT?! MY BOW?! What the hell am I going to do if I lose my bow! CRAP!". She was genuinely worried. I asked the players to find out the Hardness & HP of a magic bow for me while I moved on to the next initiative to keep the game moving. And of course, a minute later a player finds the text in the DMG guide that says a magic item can only be damaged by a magic item of an equal enhancement bonus. Seeing as how she has a +2 Legacy bow and very few NPC of mine wield magic weapons, this NPC can't even damage the bow even if he did a sunder.

Then the players rejoice. Once again my own rule book thwarts my actions rather than the players. Honestly, little things like this are pissing me off Some lame obscure rule makes me look like a dope yet again. I can't ignore the rule or all hell would break loose and I would lose my player's trust. So I suck it up, and try to think of other ways to be "original" and get the players nervous so they can reminisce about that moment later on.

I also see it happen with players. Sometimes a player wants to do something clever and he can't because he lacks some stupid feat or something. Or maybe it's because he can't take a move action then a standard action and finish it off with a reasonable partial move action just because it's against the rules. And I can't let them get away with it because they prefer to stick to the rules (well, they prefer that my NPC's stick to the rules...they wouldn't mind getting away with things if I let them...and if I can't do it, they can't do it )

 

[I'm A Banana]

#1: Rule 0 is your friend.

#2: What didn't work the first time...

For instance, with your inability to break the +2 Legacy bow...maybe Mookie McLow-level can't break it, but when a major henchman to the BBEG shows up with his +2 Sunderstick, she'll be in trouble all over again.

#3: RTFM. The advice in the DMG is to read the appropriate rules before the game. Just make sure you've brushed up, you should be fine.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And of course, a minute later a player finds the text in the DMG guide that says a magic item can only be damaged by a magic item of an equal enhancement bonus.

3.5 DMG?

Check the errata.

The correct rule is in the PHB - magic weapons gain +2 hardness and +10 hit points per point of enhancement bonus, but as long as you can beat the hardness, you can eventually sunder a +5 bow with a rusty handaxe.

-Hyp.

 

[Khairn]

hmmm ... a definite problem but one that can easily be fixed.

-First, take a night to re-read the combat actions in the PHB. It may be dry reading, but if I dont refresh those rules in my mind every few months or so I end up being caught the same way you were.

-Two ... get yourself a copy of Iron Heroes and take a look at the section on Stunts and Action Zones. There is an even better run down of them in Mastering Iron Heroes. This gives you some great ground rules for creating exciting terrain that the players can use to boost their abilities.

- Two (part deux) Get a copy of Complete Scoundrel and take a look at the Skill Stunts. Outstanding rules for doing such wondrous things as running towards the wall, up the wall and then flip yourself behind your opponent for a sweet sneak attack!

I wish I had better advise but its all in the preparation.

 

[Oryan77]

3.5 DMG?

Check the errata.

The correct rule is in the PHB - magic weapons gain +2 hardness and +10 hit points per point of enhancement bonus, but as long as you can beat the hardness, you can eventually sunder a +5 bow with a rusty handaxe.

Well doesn't that just suck haha. I just dl'ed errata for every book last week and stuck that DMG errata in the back of my book. I had no idea about that adjustment. Although I'm glad to see that change, it's just my luck that my original idea was spoiled

What page does that info appear in the PHB? I just checked and couldn't find any info on magic item hardness in the PHB.

#3: RTFM. The advice in the DMG is to read the appropriate rules before the game. Just make sure you've brushed up, you should be fine.

-First, take a night to re-read the combat actions in the PHB.

Most of the time though (as in my example) this stuff is a spurt of the moment thing. I wasn't planning to sunder until it dawned on me at that moment. So I referred to my notes on sundering when it was my initiative and declared my action. I'll brush up on rules if I know ahead of time I'm going to do something. But most of these situations come to me as I'm imagining the scene as it's being played.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What page does that info appear in the PHB? I just checked and couldn't find any info on magic item hardness in the PHB.

I'm away from my PHB, but it's under 'Smashing an Object' in the Exploration chapter.

-Hyp.

 

[Oryan77]

I'm away from my PHB, but it's under 'Smashing an Object' in the Exploration chapter.

I found it. It's under the Hitpoints section down at the bottom. I didn't even notice that when I checked earlier. Thanks.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Most of the time though (as in my example) this stuff is a spurt of the moment thing. I wasn't planning to sunder until it dawned on me at that moment.

In that situation, I don't even reference the rules until after the fact. I'd make an instant judgment, read up on the rule later (to see if I got it close), and if I was too harsh on the PC, I'd give them a minor something to make up for it.

Don't let rules slow down the game, man!

 

[Oryan77]

In that situation, I don't even reference the rules until after the fact. I'd make an instant judgment, read up on the rule later (to see if I got it close), and if I was too harsh on the PC, I'd give them a minor something to make up for it.

Don't let rules slow down the game, man!

Yeah I gotta stick to doing that more often. I just feel bad when I'm so boneheaded and way off from a rule when I winged it. DM's are supposed to be flawless gamers

 

[shilsen]

Yeah I gotta stick to doing that more often. I just feel bad when I'm so boneheaded and way off from a rule when I winged it. DM's are supposed to be flawless gamers

The other option, of course, is to just work on knowing the rules damn well. And it's not really counter to what KM suggested, but complementary, IMO. I do things to scare my players/PCs all the time, and a big factor in being able to do so is the fact that I have a better command of the rules than anyone in the group. Not only does knowing the rules backwards and forwards mean I literally never run into the sort of situation you described, but I can also do spur of the moment stuff and know that I have every base covered while doing so. It also makes breaking/ignoring the rules a lot easier, since I know precisely where and how to do so.