The Scroll Scribing Cleric: What are your thoughts?

Creamsteak

Explorer
Take your ordinary 1st level Cleric, but this one's different. He's using a spell book instead of direct contact with his god when he casts his spells. This isn't because he is bad favor with his god, or for any other reason, but he just likes to read his spells out of the book. He's more comfortable that way. He doesn't 'miss opportunities' by saving his spells up, he's always got yesterdays scribes handy with him.

It costs him a bit of money to cast his spells this way of course, he has to pay 37.5 gold pieces to scribe his three first level spells into his book every day, not something that's easy to handle when your a young adventurer. If he wants to scribe his weaker spells, well, that's only 18.75 gold pieces, and it's not really worth it too much.

This cleric, you see, thinks that should there ever be an emergency, he's prepared with a whole book full of cure light wounds spells. He figures, since it only takes about 0.075 hours (five minutes I think) to scribe all these spells in the morning, it's not going to slow down his adventuring at all.

So this Cleric, he runs out of money to do this early on and starts casting his spells normally, but by the time he first hits it big and has a few thousand gold pieces to spend, he's back to his old habit of scribing scrolls. By the time this guy hits 4th level he's worth maybe 5400, 1350 of which has been burned up in scroll creation. Now-adays it's costing our little Cleric 31.25-125 gold pieces to scribe his 0 level spells, 62.5-250 gold pieces to scribe his 1st level spells, and 300-400 gold pieces to scribe his 2nd level spells.

This, let's suppose, doesn't bother the cleric much. He tends to sell off some of his scrolls (like the two 100 page compendiums of cure light wounds that he has prepared) any time he finds someone with enough money. Some of his adventuring buddies think that it's a slight nuisance, toting around a few books and such, but the cleric tells them it's all in their best interests. Afterall, he's the only cleric that has enough healing potential to keep an entire city well. Sometimes thieves steal from him, and he fails to catch them, but he assumes the best (that his god will smite them, or the spells are going to a better place).

By the time this cleric is supposed to hit 8th level though, he's a level behind the party. Doesn't bother him much, his plans are to open a scroll shop as soon as he finds a city big enough to support his massive hoard of spells. He also was forced to have a Heward's Handy Haversack constructed specifically to handle books. All's well though, afterall, one time he came upon a plague infested town on the brink of death and saved hundreds of lives, personally and literally. Ever since then he's become a bit famous, of course, drawing a few more looters in the process. Nowadays though he can ward his materials against most thugs, and has a solid group of friends that don't want anything bad to happen to their tomes of helpfullness.

And of course, the player of this character just loves doing the paperwork to keep everything organized. And the player of this character also likes the concept of reading his spells from a book, all the while still praising his god (Boccob Perhaps...), and making quite a bit of a library...

My question then is, what do other DMs think of this idea? What about from a players perspective (a fellow party member I mean)? I'm thinking that it's definitely worth trying, as a player, and I can't wait to put it down on paper. I feel a bit hesitant though, is it really a good idea? Assuming that the character had the best of circumstances, and always managed to stay up with the standard PC gold rates, and spent 50% of that on his scribing, he'd only be level 17 when the party hit 20th, but I don't think that's a problem to me. I like the concept... I want to give it a shot...
 
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Man I'd hand over soo much RPing xp you'd at least be 18th or up against 19th.

I so respect such great character ideas and they must be supported by a DM. Original ideas should be supported and not shot down or made less attactive to play because of the game mechanics or gold or xp you'd miss out on.

If I were your DM i'd make it work and as a fellow party member, great for in party discussions and relation ships.

I'm so loving this character already.
(Kudos on the well thought out and worked out post btw)
 
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creamsteak said:
He figures, since it only takes about 0.075 hours (five minutes I think) to scribe all these spells in the morning, it's not going to slow down his adventuring at all.
That's where he's wrong. It takes one full day to write a scroll of up to 1,000 gp value. Whether you're allowed to make a multi-spell scroll as a single scroll or whether each spell takes a minimum of one day is a matter that has been hotly debated without either side much managing to persuade the other.

(Last time I think someone got an answer from WOTC's customer service that said one spell = one scroll = at least one day, but the regular custserv folks aren't all that reliable unless they get confirmation from the R&D folks).

So, cool idea that won't work much with the rules as written.
 

And because the idea is SO cool, as a DM I've ALWAYS Rule 0-ed the 1000Gp per day to mean you can make 1000Gp worth of scrolls in 8 hours, thus a 500Gp scroll takes 4 hours.

Is this what WotC wants or indicates? I don't care, I love the idea and at the end of the day when I sit down to play DnD, it's MY game, not WotC's.
 

I was just about to write my support for this idea as well, but others have already done so.

If you want, you can fulfill your idea AND follow the rules as well, it's not so difficult, just talk with your DM and ask him what are his plans.

Converting every single daily spell into a scroll by dropping scribing time from 1 day/spell to the same time needed to normally prepare your spells is effectively a little too much. As you said it yourself, it will cost a lot of money and Xp as well, and be sure you are never going to use them all (in fact you already thought about selling books of scrolls you don't need any more). Furthermore, you are basically "retaining" every spell/day, accumulating thousands of spells per year, it is effectively quite a lot.

But if your DM keeps track of time in a sensible way, and doesn't have adventures one after each other, you can make it. Remember that expected PC advancement is approx 1 level/13 encounters (of CR = avg party level), and a full-time adventure gives about 4-5 encounters/day. An week adventure is usually going to level you up, and I really hope you don't play a game in which your PC gains 50 levels/year!
If your PC is adventuring an effective 50% of time, he'll be 20th before the end of the first year, which is A HELLUVA FAST! Even if that's the case, you can make more than 150 scrolls/year, just agree with the DM to count the "days off" and choose 1 scroll/day as usual. You'll still have many many of them without breaking the rules and with less gp or xp expense.

If it's too few scrolls still, you can find a way in-between, for example multi-spells scrolls can be probably considered a single magic item within the rules.
 

DWARF said:
Is this what WotC wants or indicates? I don't care, I love the idea and at the end of the day when I sit down to play DnD, it's MY game, not WotC's.

That is the best reply to a question I have read on these boards! :) I think people have forgotten that the books are only guidelines and one can play their game the way they want. Way to go DWARF!

I'd also allow it, not just because it's a cool idea but in 3e I have yet to see anyone in my group (myself included :( ) have a cleric write up any scroll much less a full book. I have to encourage more scroll writing from clerics in the future, maybe even giving them the Scribe Scroll Feat for free at a relatively low level (1st - 3rd).
 
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From a players perspective, he should probably invest in Create Wand. It's more economical by far, and you could always say it manifests as a prayer book.

From a DM's perspective, give him some roleplaying XP RIGHT NOW!
 

Not that I have a long-time RPing experience, but I have seen D&D 3.0 games where the DM was using variants which would have made many ENboarders to shatter and enrage :)

Neverthless, the games were still fun and challenging.:cool:
 

Re: Re: The Scroll Scribing Cleric: What are your thoughts?

Staffan said:
(Last time I think someone got an answer from WOTC's customer service that said one spell = one scroll = at least one day, but the regular custserv folks aren't all that reliable unless they get confirmation from the R&D folks).

As far as that ruling goes, I'd certainly not do such a thing with Scrolls or Potions... The two of those just seem like they can be made faster than substantial permanent (or semi-permanent) magic items. 20 potions per day does seem like a lot, but 1st level scrolls don't seem like they could ever take that long to scribe...

As far as wands as scrolls go... maybe a feat called "Scribe Book". Usable in a similar fashion to a wand, but probably capable of replacing charges (with a Profession: bookbinding check DC 15+Spell Level) at a higher cost (the cost to make scrolls per charge) makes sense.
 

Re: Re: Re: The Scroll Scribing Cleric: What are your thoughts?

creamsteak said:


As far as wands as scrolls go... maybe a feat called "Scribe Book". Usable in a similar fashion to a wand, but probably capable of replacing charges (with a Profession: bookbinding check DC 15+Spell Level) at a higher cost (the cost to make scrolls per charge) makes sense.

According to Tome & Blood such a prayer book would require Craft Wands (the magic uses the wands mechanics and pricing) and Craft Wondrous (it's not a wand). My character took those feats for just that reason.

I'm a cleric of Bane, so if you're a true believer, you can read the prayer book (Faith Healing spell), and if you're not, you can kiss the boots (CLW). :cool:

PS
 

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