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5E The Shadow Sorcery! Is It the most powerful class at high levels?

Hohige

Explorer

Umbral form​

"Umbral Form
Starting at 18th level, you can spend 6 sorcery points as a bonus action to transform yourself into a shadowy form. In this form, you have resistance to all damage except force and radiant damage, and you can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. You take 5 force damage if you end your turn inside an object.

You remain in this form for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you die, or if you dismiss it as a bonus action."

Invulnerability: This means that you can cast a spell and enter an object in the same turn to get the benefit of full cover.
You may still have resistance against radiant damage being aasimar.
In practice, you are invulnerable.

I back to the fight every turn: You can wish for duplicate Regenerate spell that means that you can't be defeated by damage for 1 hour. (Regaining 1 hp per turn, you back to fight each turn even if you are reduced to 0 hp)

Long range and reliable damage: Distant spell for Insect Plague for 620ft range that can be insane combo with Aasimar Racials.
Empowered 5d10 + extra damage equal your level that ignore cover as your most reliable damage spell.

Spellcasting Superiority: Subtle Counterspell (Always win a counterspell battle) and Distant Spell for long range spell. You are a beast on spellcaster battle.

Incredible mobility: Subtle/Distant Dimension Door and Shadow Walk for insanity "Surprise Mother ****er, I'm here!"


I'm here, mother ****er!​

It's just insane effective.
You can also apply twin spell on Simulacrum (Via wish) for still more power.



THE BLACK HOLE...The Shadows will devour you!


Step 1) The Shadow Lord and His simulacrum with Darkness Spell and Umbral form moving through objects.
It's literally total cover and block line sight (Countering hard "you must see the creature" spells and effects).


Your turn:

Step 2) Move out of the enemy's spell range. Keep always out of true sight spell's range (120ft).


The Shadow Lord casts Distant Empowered Dark Star for 300ft range (Casting via Subtle Wish). The enemies can't cast spells with verbal component and It's blind and deaf.


The Simulacrum casts Distant Reverse Gravity for 200ft range. The enemy can't move.
The enemies are imprisoned on reverse gravity, blind, deaf and can't cast spells with verbal component.
Also, taking Empowered 8d10 force damage +20 (Aasimar Ratials) per turn automatically.


Step 3) Move inside walls again to get total cover again.

Highlights:
It can literally desintegrate all party in a single turn.
It can't be countered... How?
Only sorcerer's subtle spell can avoid it.
 

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EthanSental

Adventurer
I’m probably over looking something, but dark star isn’t a sorcerer class spell list. How can he cast it? That’s the part I might be overlooking.
 






Benjamin Olson

Adventurer
You've got some cool combos there. I don't think it's particularly more invulnerable then a variety of other builds, and, you know, at ultra high levels everyone is pretty damned good at what they do. Your sales pitch seems to mostly boil down to 1) Shadow Sorcerers are really good at hiding and resisting damage, 2) Sorcerers are really good at avoiding counterspells, and 3) Wish is a really powerful spell.

But a Sorcerer damned well should be particularly godlike in tier four play, since they were the weakest member of their party through all of tier 1 and couldn't hold their own through a long adventuring day until a ways into tier 2 (mileage will vary). They've payed their dues.

You can't Twin Simulacrum. Twin requires targeting a creature. The Simulacrum is not a creature until you have cast the spell. And, of course, if we are going to cheese simulacra then the equivalently leveled Wizard (and potentially the Bard) have already chain created infinite simulacra at level 17. If that's not allowed (ie: if your DM is sane) then, at the very least these folk can create a simulacrum without Wish which still has its 9th level slot.
 

Azuresun

Explorer
"Umbral Form
Starting at 18th level, you can spend 6 sorcery points as a bonus action to transform yourself into a shadowy form. In this form, you have resistance to all damage except force and radiant damage, and you can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. You take 5 force damage if you end your turn inside an object.

You remain in this form for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you die, or if you dismiss it as a bonus action."

Invulnerability: This means that you can cast a spell and enter an object in the same turn to get the benefit of full cover.
You may still have resistance against radiant damage being aasimar.
In practice, you are invulnerable.
"I step out the wall and cast--"

"Hold on, let's resolve all the readied attacks against you first."
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Any character that does not have an insanely effective build by 18th level probably has some pretty serious issues that rhyme with Leastfaster.
 

Worrgrendel

Explorer
Invulnerability: This means that you can cast a spell and enter an object in the same turn to get the benefit of full cover.
You may still have resistance against radiant damage being aasimar.
In practice, you are invulnerable.
Correction. You are not invulnerable. You are resistant. Invulnerable you take zero damage. Resistant you take half. Which is still damage.

I back to the fight every turn: You can wish for duplicate Regenerate spell that means that you can't be defeated by damage for 1 hour. (Regaining 1 hp per turn, you back to fight each turn even if you are reduced to 0 hp)

You can also apply twin spell on Simulacrum (Via wish) for still more power.

The Shadow Lord casts Distant Empowered Dark Star for 300ft range (Casting via Subtle Wish). The enemies can't cast spells with verbal component and It's blind and deaf.
Also, this is 3 castings of Wish. You only get 1 9th level spell slot per day so I'm not sure how you are accomplishing this.

I back to the fight every turn: You can wish for duplicate Regenerate spell that means that you can't be defeated by damage for 1 hour. (Regaining 1 hp per turn, you back to fight each turn even if you are reduced to 0 hp)
Incorrect. While you regain 1 hp at the start of your turn you can still fail death saves while you are unconscious and die as a result of that.

Damage at 0 Hit Points: If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead.

While you are unconscious any hit against you within 5 feet of you is an automatic critical so once you go down only 2 hits are required to kill you outright regardless of damage and regeneration.

You remain in this form for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you die, or if you dismiss it as a bonus action.
Additionally, once you go unconscious you become incapacitated. When you are incapacitated you lose Umbral Form.
 




Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Or the pet is a Pteranodon. They should just call it the Dino-Rider ranger and make it small races only and it would be far more popular. Or just let them ride more dinosaurs.
While riding an Argentinosaurus might seem impressive, I'm not sure it is great for dungeon delving. Also makes it rough for those stealth missions.
 


Asisreo

Archdevil's Advocate
Theoretically, the pet could retrieve their arrows, so ... there's that, I guess?
A Giant Poisonous Snake would have a natural, non-barding AC of 20 with 72 HP and a +12 to-hit naturally by player (second highest, to Barbs at level 20) with an average damage of 22 or 17 on a successful save. This Giant Poisonous Snake gets 2 attacks and you get to attack a target yourself. Or, you could cast a strong BA spell like Lightning Arrow or Swift Quiver.

To put into complete perspective what a level 18 Beastmaster is, let me say that if they did this Combo with Swift Quiver on the first round, the second round would be

2x +12 17 average damage each = 34
3x +11 9 average damage = 27

That's a whole average of 61 damage in one turn, not counting the 43 damage they had done last turn. A DPR of 52 is not that bad considering they'll only need to concentrate on the one spell to be consistent with the 61 damage throughout.

Out of combat, the GPS is a okay, with a 18 to PP and Blindsight, they can even detect invisible enemies.

Let's say you chose a hawk. Not very good for combat but they are still 80hp with an AC of 19. Their PP would be 25 and their attacks would be an average of 7, which isn't great but they aren't made for explicit battle. The hawk can help as a bonus action, which makes it a very durable familiar with the high defensive traits and high speeds. If you dodge with it, you can use it to provoke a reaction that allows your spellcasters to get off their spells. If you cast ensnaring strike, the target is subject to 2 4 saves on a single turn, debilitating for a spellcaster.

If you target yourself with Cure Wounds, you can also restore your animal's HP.

If you Conjure Woodland Beings and you get Pixie's they can polymorph your beast into a much stronger one. Now, it depends on whether you consider the Ranger's companion to still be CR 1/4, I don't because if I made my players fight it, it would be disingenuous to give them only 50 xp. Even so, they can still be turned into horses for the mount, constrictor snakes for the free restrains, Giant Bats to fly. They still get their proficiency bonus and AC and HP because they're still your Beast Companion.
 

Benjamin Olson

Adventurer
+12 to-hit naturally by player (second highest, to Barbs at level 20)
In our archery scenario you have been beating your pet's attack since whenever you maxed your Dex, provided you took the Archery fighting style. More broadly, most campaigns have magic weapons, but most do not have magic fang enhancers for giant snakes. This means both that the to hit probably ends up a wash with most of the rest of the party eventually, good, but likely not as good as yours. More importantly, a lot of high level enemies will be straight up immune to its nonmagical weapon attacks, and far more enemies will be immune to its poison. And this is our optimal damage beast companion, it won't be everyone's preference, and I think since this is considered a weak subclass people are more often than not taking it for mechanical benefit.

Also its a (ten foot reach) front line fighter with slightly less HP than a wizard. You're going to be patching it up a lot. As far as the help action goes, it's helpful, but by very high levels you could have found the ASI to take a feat and get a familiar; save your bonus action for casting and managing all the Ranger spells you have.

Which is not to say it's as bad as it's accused of being, and certainly you've brought up good ways to optimize it. I'd add that, in a low magic campaign, the beast would be more consistently useful. But I can't think of another subclass where all the abilities centered around one not particularly amazing thing. If their beast is in some way out of commission they effectively don't have a subclass. Basically all the really good Ranger abilities other than spellcasting and the normal array of martial stuff come from subclasses, so this is quite a handicap. But still, end of the day, they have all the normal Ranger magic, so they're always going to be fairly decent.

Returning to the Sorcerer discussion, I think they share one major thing with Rangers in terms of disappointing people: too many levels where you don't get anything exciting; to much waiting for that level X where they will become worthwhile. Which is why I'll actually say that if anything the Shadow Sorcerer is not powerful enough at level 18. They had a long slog to the top and deserve the rewards.
 


Hohige

Explorer
"I step out the wall and cast--"

"Hold on, let's resolve all the readied attacks against you first."
Well. It's the Point.

The Shadow Sorcerer moves through walls and distant spell gives him position advantage over enemies. Because you are just out your spell' range but the sorcerer isn't.
He can simply move out of the enemy's range and cast a spell.
Or simply use counterspell.
Position advantage is key here.

But, I really don't believe there is any spell or attack that could threaten the shadow wizard.
Also, remember with readied attack you can't apply extra attack.
 
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