The Shadowcaster -weak?

[Mouseferatu]

Ari, in the last thread about shadowcasters, didn't you say that the editors altered the class quite a bit from your original version?

Not the class itself. A lot of the individual mysteries. (And I'll admit that most of the changes were for the better, though there are perhaps a couple I disagree with.)

It's certainly true that low-level shadowcasters don't get many mysteries--perhaps too few. :\ But I'm curious if anyone's had the chance to see if that still holds true at higher levels, when their earlier categories of mystery jump to 2/day or even 3/day.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I've had a slightly different experience with the shadowcaster as DM. I combined a shadow (Standard Monster Manual) with six levels of shadowcaster focusing on the terrain abilities (I'm working off of memory here but I'm sure you guys know the ones I mean).

This thing's purpose was to guard an "exploding McGuffin"(1) and make sure no one could stop it from "exploding". The PCs tried but this shadow shadowcaster immobolized the PCs preventing them from preventing the "explosion". It eventually served it's purpose and served it very well.

I suppose what I have learnt from this is that the shadowcaster when focused, is very good at doing what they do. I have reservations for the class in terms of utility though. I can only speculate but I think that mechanically they are better suited to an NPC role rather than a PC role.

In terms of roleplaying a Shadowcaster though, I think it's the bees knees. I like to play weird or slightly different characters and the Shadowcaster most certainly fits the bill. By higher levels, the important crossover from magical abilities to supernatural abilities will be complete meaning this guy will have a couple of real cool tricks up the sleeve. Not everyone's cup of tea but certainly mine.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Cadfan]

Hah, one more thing.

I liked the sidebars in Tome of Magic. Most of them were very useful, especially the ones in the shadow magic section, which helped with some of the more technical bits of shadow magic (incorporeal, spell like abilities versus supernatural abilities, etc).

But one sidebar that the book needed, was one summing up the weirdness with Hide, hide in plain sight, concealment, hiding in combat, attacking from hiding, returning to hiding after attacking from hiding, and so forth.

 

[genshou]

Not the class itself. A lot of the individual mysteries. (And I'll admit that most of the changes were for the better, though there are perhaps a couple I disagree with.)

It's certainly true that low-level shadowcasters don't get many mysteries--perhaps too few. :\ But I'm curious if anyone's had the chance to see if that still holds true at higher levels, when their earlier categories of mystery jump to 2/day or even 3/day.

Oh... I was mistaken about that, then.

I think at high levels the same problem will still be there, but less pronounced perhaps. We didn't get to the high levels in the WLD game before it was cancelled, but looking at the class the high-level mysteries are still 1/day, and that means the shadowcaster really has to conserve the mysteries that are high enough level to actually be effective against CR-appropriate foes, just like at the lower levels. And without anything to make the shadowcaster effective in combat when not using mysteries, that means less usefulness overall.

Maybe if I get a chance to play in a high-level game I'll try out a shadowcaster and let you know how it works out.

 

[Particle_Man]

I would be curious to see what would happen if shadowcasters were simply given the infinite uses/day ability of the Warlock. Obviously it would up the power level, but would it unbalance the game?

 

[Mouseferatu]

I would be curious to see what would happen if shadowcasters were simply given the infinite uses/day ability of the Warlock. Obviously it would up the power level, but would it unbalance the game?

I think it would. There's an art to balancing invocations, and it's very different than that to balancing spells. I designed the mysteries to be much closer to the latter than the former.

I suppose it might be doable if you dramatically cut back the number of mysteries known--to roughly 12 over the course of the class--and limited them to apprentice and initiate paths, and dramatically raised the level at which they access initiate-level mysteries, you might be able to make it work.

 

[WarlockLord]

I tried playing a drow shadowcaster. It bombed, but I think that was more due to the LA (and the fact that I didn't build him right) than to the class. This time, I'm going to take the shutter and clouds and eyes of darkness path, and max out intimidate (something to do when I'm out of mysteries). 6 arrows of dusk should work quite well.

 

[Cadfan]

If you do that, tell me how it goes. That's the plan I have for my upcoming shadowcaster, if/when I'm ever not the DM.

The other thing I want to do with shadow magic is create a shadowsmith with Flicker, and charging based feats. Each round I'll flicker back 20 feet and charge again. It will be great.

 

[WarlockLord]

The other thing I want to do with shadow magic is create a shadowsmith with Flicker, and charging based feats. Each round I'll flicker back 20 feet and charge again. It will be great.

Sounds cool.


P.S. I have my next session Thursday. I'll let you know how he works out.

 

[Land Outcast]

Hum... what about increasing the progression rate of misteries per day?[sblock=Say: 1st level misteries]
Uses per day:
lvl 01 - 1
lvl 02 - 1
lvl 03 - 1
lvl 04 - 2
lvl 05 - 2
lvl 06 - 2
lvl 07 - 3
lvl 08 - 3
lvl 09 - 3
lvl 10 - 4
lvl 11 - 4
lvl 12 - 4
lvl 13 - 5
lvl 14 - 5
lvl 15 - 5
lvl 16 - 6
lvl 17 - 6
lvl 18 - 6
lvl 19 - 7
lvl 20 - 7
[/sblock]
and/or

allow bonus misteries per day based on charisma?