The Shadowcaster -weak?
- Thread starter WarlockLord
- Start date
wykthor
First Post
Mouseferatu, I´ve created a human shadowcaster 20 and hope to use it at the game table soon 
. I use the modifications you proposed, including a liberal use of mystery swaping (and it helped!) and applying CHA to Save DC & Mysteries/day and INT for the highest mystery able to cast, and made Fortitude a low save. I will try to stat the character here next week (I´m having a mild tendinitis case right now) , but there are some points I´d like to discuss and I thank a lot in advance for any answers
1) A shadowcaster with nocturnal caster feat on a plane of eternal night (like the plane of shadow) would always receive the bonus?
2) Shadow Vision Mystery: IMHO, I think the effect was a bit weak if compared to blindness/deafness (2nd lvl spell). Am I missing something?
3) Curtain of Shadows: When you cast this mystery, if there´s a target at one of the squares which the wall will ocupy does he: a) suffers nothing because the mystery fails for the line of effect of the spell is interrupted; b) automatically suffers the effect of the mystery and or c) gets a reflex save to avoid the effects and immediately after must choose to move from either side of the wall?
4) I know I´m nitpicking, but it´s good to point that Life Fades Greater mystery states on its description that you touch a target, but the mystery is summarized as an area effect.
5) The Truth Revealed Mystery states that you unconver information after "minutes of study" but the table refers to rounds of study. Which one of them is right? And regarding the chance of misleading information, how to handle it? Is it assumed you receive a false information if the target successfully saves?
6) Prison of Night/Tomb of Night: When the target is encased at your turn, he does not gets a fortitude save to escape the mystery right away, right? He will have to wait for his round to make the first save (and receive 1d6 points of cold damage, regardless), yes?
7) Does Unravel Dweomer Mystery has the -4 to caster level checks (because it does not interact easily with spells) when trying to break a flesh to stone spell?
8) It may be a silly question, but I have to ask: when counting the number of metashadow feats as requisite for another metashadow feat OR another use/day for an already existing metashadow feat (like quicken mystery 2/day needing 7 feats), do you count metashadow feats purchased more than once? That is, if you need three metashadow feats in order to pick quicken mystery, is it eligible to have enlarge mystery and 2 x empower mystery?
9) If neither Enlarge Mystery, Reach Mystery and Still Mystery demands a full-round action to cast, they may be applied with Maximize Mystery freely, without any extra time, correct?
10) Is Twin Spell feat acceptable for a metashadow version? What about Mystery Penetration (the shadowcaster´s version for spell penetration)? And what about other metamagic feats, like transdimensional spell or uttercold spell? Personally, I´d have no problem with them (excepting persistent spell and innate spell). Regarding Twin Mystery, It would allow the classic combination of three mysteries/round as it´s done for the standard spellcasters. I´m not worried about the hit point damage pool, but I admit it´s scary a quickened Flesh Fails Greater followed by a twin Flesh Fails Greater at the same round (living creatures would receive without save 18 STR/DEX damage or 12 CON damage without save)
. I use the modifications you proposed, including a liberal use of mystery swaping (and it helped!) and applying CHA to Save DC & Mysteries/day and INT for the highest mystery able to cast, and made Fortitude a low save. I will try to stat the character here next week (I´m having a mild tendinitis case right now) , but there are some points I´d like to discuss and I thank a lot in advance for any answers 1) A shadowcaster with nocturnal caster feat on a plane of eternal night (like the plane of shadow) would always receive the bonus?
2) Shadow Vision Mystery: IMHO, I think the effect was a bit weak if compared to blindness/deafness (2nd lvl spell). Am I missing something?
3) Curtain of Shadows: When you cast this mystery, if there´s a target at one of the squares which the wall will ocupy does he: a) suffers nothing because the mystery fails for the line of effect of the spell is interrupted; b) automatically suffers the effect of the mystery and or c) gets a reflex save to avoid the effects and immediately after must choose to move from either side of the wall?
4) I know I´m nitpicking, but it´s good to point that Life Fades Greater mystery states on its description that you touch a target, but the mystery is summarized as an area effect.
5) The Truth Revealed Mystery states that you unconver information after "minutes of study" but the table refers to rounds of study. Which one of them is right? And regarding the chance of misleading information, how to handle it? Is it assumed you receive a false information if the target successfully saves?
6) Prison of Night/Tomb of Night: When the target is encased at your turn, he does not gets a fortitude save to escape the mystery right away, right? He will have to wait for his round to make the first save (and receive 1d6 points of cold damage, regardless), yes?
7) Does Unravel Dweomer Mystery has the -4 to caster level checks (because it does not interact easily with spells) when trying to break a flesh to stone spell?
8) It may be a silly question, but I have to ask: when counting the number of metashadow feats as requisite for another metashadow feat OR another use/day for an already existing metashadow feat (like quicken mystery 2/day needing 7 feats), do you count metashadow feats purchased more than once? That is, if you need three metashadow feats in order to pick quicken mystery, is it eligible to have enlarge mystery and 2 x empower mystery?
9) If neither Enlarge Mystery, Reach Mystery and Still Mystery demands a full-round action to cast, they may be applied with Maximize Mystery freely, without any extra time, correct?
10) Is Twin Spell feat acceptable for a metashadow version? What about Mystery Penetration (the shadowcaster´s version for spell penetration)? And what about other metamagic feats, like transdimensional spell or uttercold spell? Personally, I´d have no problem with them (excepting persistent spell and innate spell). Regarding Twin Mystery, It would allow the classic combination of three mysteries/round as it´s done for the standard spellcasters. I´m not worried about the hit point damage pool, but I admit it´s scary a quickened Flesh Fails Greater followed by a twin Flesh Fails Greater at the same round (living creatures would receive without save 18 STR/DEX damage or 12 CON damage without save)
Mouseferatu
Hero
Wow. Um, let's see...
1) Yep.
2) I suppose it is, a bit, though it's also meant to serve a slightly different purpose. But not all spells and mysteries are meant to be entirely equal.
3) As with similar spells (i.e. wall of fire), the answer is B.
4) The spell stat block is correct; it's an area effect. The "touch" reference is a typo.
5) When I wrote it, I intended minutes. The table was changed to rounds in development; I assume the reference to "minutes" in the text was left by accident. Also when I wrote it, there was difficulties assigned to the different types of information, and failure by more than 5 on the roll indicated misleading info. Since those were removed, I suppose it's up to you decide if the misleading info occurs on a successful save, or under other circumstances. (Perhaps a save that succeeds by more than a certain amount would be appropriate.)
6) Correct. The save requires an action, and occurs on the target's initiative.
7) Yes, the -4 applies.
8) I don't see why not. You spent the feat slots on metashadow feats, so I'd say they ought to apply.
9) Correct. The mystery would take a full-round, due to the maximize, but is not further lengthened by the others.
10) I'd want to see them playtested before I said for certain. But my guess is, anything that works as a metamagic feat probably could be transformed into a metashadow feat, using the existing metashadow feats as models.
1) Yep.
2) I suppose it is, a bit, though it's also meant to serve a slightly different purpose. But not all spells and mysteries are meant to be entirely equal.
3) As with similar spells (i.e. wall of fire), the answer is B.
4) The spell stat block is correct; it's an area effect. The "touch" reference is a typo.
5) When I wrote it, I intended minutes. The table was changed to rounds in development; I assume the reference to "minutes" in the text was left by accident. Also when I wrote it, there was difficulties assigned to the different types of information, and failure by more than 5 on the roll indicated misleading info. Since those were removed, I suppose it's up to you decide if the misleading info occurs on a successful save, or under other circumstances. (Perhaps a save that succeeds by more than a certain amount would be appropriate.)
6) Correct. The save requires an action, and occurs on the target's initiative.
7) Yes, the -4 applies.
8) I don't see why not. You spent the feat slots on metashadow feats, so I'd say they ought to apply.
9) Correct. The mystery would take a full-round, due to the maximize, but is not further lengthened by the others.
10) I'd want to see them playtested before I said for certain. But my guess is, anything that works as a metamagic feat probably could be transformed into a metashadow feat, using the existing metashadow feats as models.
Mouseferatu
Hero
So I've just realized one flaw in the shadowcaster changes I've been playing with.
I just realized that this means a 6th-level shadowcaster can have one 1st-level mystery, one 2nd-level mystery, and four 3rd-level mysteries. I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with that.
Those of you who have tested these alterations, how was your experience in this regard?
I just realized that this means a 6th-level shadowcaster can have one 1st-level mystery, one 2nd-level mystery, and four 3rd-level mysteries. I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with that.
Those of you who have tested these alterations, how was your experience in this regard?
wykthor
First Post
Great, that makes Curtain of Shadows even more useful
(a pity I had to drop it).
Well, at first glance only the matter of a twin + quickened Flesh Fails Greater bothered me, because even this quickened mystery in conjunction with another standard casting could paralyse in one round, say, a great wyrm dragon of DEX 10 if it surpasses the SR. So, If I could suggest, I'd recommend the mystery allowing a Save: Fortitude: partial, meaning that if one of the target's abilities is reduced to zero, a successful save instead reduces the DEX/STR/CON to 1 instead.
Honestly, I haven't noticed that
I thought the requirements of "at least two mysteries of the same level to get one of one mystery of a higher level" would still apply. IMO, I 'd strongly recommend to mantain this restriction, but without enforcing the need of following the same path.
Mouseferatu
Hero
wykthor said:
That's very similar to what I was considering, actually. I was going to go with "Within a particular category (apprentice, initiate, master), you cannot have more mysteries of any given level than you do of the level below it."
wykthor
First Post
Hmm, respectfully, I have one point to disagree about this method. Even if you systhematically picked for each pair of levels (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 ...) two mysteries of the highest "standard" level (i.e 2 mysteries lvl 1 for 1-2, 2 mysteries lvl 2 for 3-4, 2 mysteries lvl 3 for 5-6 ...), after 18th level, you will be able to pick only one mystery of 7th (19th) and one mystery of 8th (20th). Personally, I fear this will unecessarily limit more the SC's repertoire with a measure that, stated at this way, will only affect the character at terminal levels 
Mouseferatu
Hero
Fair enough. I'll reconsider going with just the "must have 2 of X before you can have any of X+1."
Mouseferatu
Hero
New version of changes here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=184955
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