The shapechanged golem paradox.

[LordVyreth]

In my last game, the party wizard turned herself into a mithral golem using the Shapechange spell. She eventually was confronted by a lich who himself Shapechanged into a beholder, and then directed the anti-magic cone on her, cancelling the spell. She didn't agree with the calling, and I admit it creates an odd situation. On one hand, Mithral Golems are immune to all spells and supernatural effects (which I believe surpasses the usual "golem magic immunity = infinite SR" description.) On the other hand, I figured that while the wizard was immune to a magic as a result, spell-effects still on her were fair game, including the Shapechange itself. After all, if that wasn't true, wouldn't the golem be immune to the Shapechange itself? In retrospect, though, I wasn't sure that was the right choice. What's the general consensus here? Should a creature Shapechanged into a mithral golem be immune to all magic, include anti-magic effects? Should she be immune, but spell effects on her are fair game? Or all spell effects negated by assuming the form, and does that include the Shapechange itself?

 

[Arkhandus]

No, the Shapechange effect that made the PC into a golem is not affected by the golem's Magic Immunity, the Shapechange is separate and subject to dispelling or antimagic effects, but not to the PC-turned-golem's own Magic Immunity. The beholder can negate the shapechange with its main eye's antimagic cone. The dispelling or antimagic does not affect the golem itself, and the golem cannot be affected by magic after the Shapechange (aside from the effects mentioned in the golem's desription). The dispelling or antimagic affects simply the Shapechange spell around the golem.

 

[Ferret]

I see a plot hook. Some kind of ancient artifact etc...

Otherwise I say fair play. I can't remember, but shapechange allows Supernatural abilities, yeah? Well I'd play it like that with the plot hook, otherwise I would wave the rule.

 

[Marimmar]

Even Shapechange doesn't allow you to turn into a Construct. Unless the Mithril Golem is a living creature somehow this wouldn't work.

From Polymorph:
The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.

From Shapechange:
Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

So no Construct no problem.

~Marimmar

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Moot point. The Shapechange spell (with the errata) allows only 1hd/caster level, max 25 hd. A mithral golem has 36hd.

 

[Marimmar]

Another thing...

From Shapechange:
The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD).

From Epic SRD:
Mithral Golem
Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 36d10+40 (238 hp)

~Marimmar


EDIT: Damn, someone beat me to it.

 

[Stormborn]

Once the DM allows a Mithral Golem (maybe one with less HD, it is a construct after all and such things can be changed) then questions of shapechange abuse are meaningless. I agree with those who said that the antimagic works on Shapechange and reverts her back to normal.

 

[LordVyreth]

Wow, I didn't know about the no-construct rule beforehand. As for the HD thing, I've been using the original "double your HD, maximum 50" original ruling for now, as it hasn't really been used for too unbalanced an effect so far, at least no more than a 21st level wizard run by a player who also DMs can be expected. I might impose a CR limit on the creatures transformed into, though.

At the very least, though, it's good to know that I at least made the right call in this specific case.

 

[Iku Rex]

Even Shapechange doesn't allow you to turn into a Construct.

Wrong.

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD).

 

[AuraSeer]

On one hand, Mithral Golems are immune to all spells and supernatural effects (which I believe surpasses the usual "golem magic immunity = infinite SR" description.)

I think you're incorrect there. Spells that don't allow SR will still affect the golem, because their magic doesn't need to touch him at all. The magic works on some other part of reality, which then might affect the golem physically.

A common example is reverse gravity. It does not allow SR, because it doesn't directly affect the victims; it physically switches the direction of gravity in the affected area. If a mithral golem is in the area, his magic immunity doesn't grant him any power to stay stuck to the ground without gravity, so he will fall "up" to the limit of the spell effect.

That's similar to how antimagic works. All it does is suppress magical energy inside its area. The effect doesn't need to get inside the golem, or directly affect him in any way; it just starves the shapechange spell of energy, making it turn off.

In case the question comes up, a dispel magic would also have worked. Again, since the spell doesn't need to do anything to the golem directly, magic immunity would not help against it.