The Sources of D&D

mhacdebhandia said:
I would be surprised if the original inspiration wasn't as simple as "Cthulhu".

That's why it sticks out in my mind, because I had assumed the Mind Flayer was Lovecraftian in nature. Hearing otherwise (from Gary) surprised me.

I found the quote on Wikipedia: "The mind flayer I made up out of whole cloth using my imagination, but inspired by the cover of Brian Lumley's novel in paperback edition, The Burrowers Beneath"

So, not from a movie, but from a book cover.

e Though this book might be part of Cthulhu mythos stuff that Lumley wrote, which would explain why it's so Lovecraftian after all.
 
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T. Foster said:
D&D's lawful-aligned werebear is clearly modeled primarily on Beorn. OD&D directly cites Tolkien for two monsters that weren't listed in the OP -- rocs (which later D&D editions separated into two different monsters -- giant eagles (from Tolkien) and rocs (from mythology)), and spectres (which are stated as including Nazgul). Chainmail also cites Tolkien for red dragons. AD&D giant spiders also seem fairly obviously to come from Tolkien.

And of course treants (which were specifically called "ents" in Chainmail and OD&D) are so obviously from Tolkien that not listing them in the OP was presumbaly just an oversight...
Yeah, I forgot treants/ents. I'm sure Tolkien is the source for giant eagles and probably the werebear. Red dragon = Smaug, definitely. Both are very covetous and the suggestion power comes from Smaug's hypnotic eyes. Spectres (and wraiths?) derived from JRRT seems more of a stretch. Tolkien is very fond of giant spiders, but I would've thought they're pretty common throughout fantasy fiction.
 

JDJblatherings said:
Not a Tolkien invention at all. sure Tolkien exposed lots of people to the concept but there were folks that wore bear-shirts that supposedly gave thme the strength and ferocity of bears...the roots of Berserkers.
Beorn is quite different from a berserker, though. Sure, he's tough and fierce in combat, but he's also quite amiable and helpful, if rather gruff, to Gandalf, Bilbo, and the dwarves. In D&D terms, I'd make him a were-direbear, neutral good, and a druid or ranger given how he talk to his dogs, his cattle, and even his giant bees. (There's a theory that Beorn is actually Tolkien's reinterpretation of Beowulf.)
Tewligan said:
Star Wars came out in summer of 2007
:lol:
JustinA said:
What is now the Use Magic Device skill and used to be a thief class ability is derived from Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories, clearly indicating that the Mouser was the primary antecedent of the D&D rogue.

The barbarian is clearly derived from the line of Conan. Although, by the time Gygax was using it, Conan's lineage had already been well-used by many authors.
Thief/Rogue = Cugel + Grey Mouser
Barbarian = Conan + Fafhrd
 

More:

Tiamat, Shedu, Lammasu: Babylonian and Sumerian mythology
Elementals, sylph, salamander: Medieval alchemy (based itself of Greek sources)
Yuan-Ti: R.E. Howard's snake people, possibly?

mhacdebhandia said:
Meanwhile, along with the troll and the paladin, Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions also gave us the swanmay.

Swanmays are from Hans Andersen's The Marsh King's Daughter, though he didn't name them. I expect there are earlier examples in Norse mythology.
 

Well, yeah, but what I mean is that the direct inspiration for the swanmay was Anderson's novel. It's just as true that the paladin comes from medieval chansons de geste concerning the Matter of France, and before that the praetorian guard of the Roman emperor Diocletian, but it's more accurate to say that D&D's paladin comes from Three Hearts and Three Lions.
 
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Dougan Axehammer said:
Treants = also Tolkein
(I don't recognize the reference to werebears though?)

Beorn was a human in The Hobbit (IIRC? Or was it The Lord Of The Rings?) that the party visited at one point out in the wilderness while traveling, and he let them take shelter under his roof and partake of his food (IIRC), but insisted that no matter what, they must lock the door at night and not go outside until after dawn.

Namely, cuz Beorn was cursed to transform into a mighty, dangerous bear at night, and he didn't want to hurt them while he wasn't himself. Beorn didn't tell the party though, he just warned them vaguely, and they discerned from the sounds and damage to the place later that it seemed a savage and powerful bear was on the rampage that night.

Beorn was a nice guy but dangerous, and I forget if Gandalf ever mentioned why Beorn changed into a bear each night (I think I remember the group taking refuge in Beorn's cabin while Gandalf was away in The Hobbit, off to meet with his fellow wizards and see what the Necromancer was up to and confirm if it was or was not Sauron in hiding, recovering his strength). Beorn was protector of those woods (or that part of 'em anyway) and an acquaintance or friend of Gandalf's IIRC.
 

Wraiths and Spectres are both inspired by Tolkien's nazgul, and I think this is made clear in Chainmail, OD&D or both.

Giant spiders, although they appear in earlier sources (e.g. Conan), also seem to be Tolkien-inspired. The evil alignment is a giveaway: in Tower of the Elephant, the giant spider was a dumb beast; in The Hobbit, they seemed to possess a malevolent intelligence and were clearly creatures of the Shadow.

There may be a connection between the Hand and Eye of Vecna and similar items used by Moorcock's hero, Corum, but this is a pretty distant relation as the abilities/behaviour of them are rather distant.

Swanmay are from Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions, although Anderson himself got them from Norse mythology.

Gelatinous cubes are D&Disms, coming from dice from faults during production. They were originally called "the very runny octahedron". I have no source for this claim, other than reading it on a messageboard by someone "who was there".
 

Arkhandus said:
Beorn was a human in The Hobbit (IIRC? Or was it The Lord Of The Rings?) that the party visited at one point out in the wilderness while traveling, and he let them take shelter under his roof and partake of his food (IIRC), but insisted that no matter what, they must lock the door at night and not go outside until after dawn.

Namely, cuz Beorn was cursed to transform into a mighty, dangerous bear at night, and he didn't want to hurt them while he wasn't himself. Beorn didn't tell the party though, he just warned them vaguely, and they discerned from the sounds and damage to the place later that it seemed a savage and powerful bear was on the rampage that night.

I believe that Beorn was also very good with healing herbs. IIRC, the AD&D werebear could cure disease. That, plus the werebears' good alignment (all the other lycanthropes were evil or neutral) definitely link the werebears with Beorn.
 

Doug McCrae said:
Dominating sword - Michael Moorcock's Stormbringer
I'd say that Stormbringer is a continuation of the idea of a cursed sword, like Tyrfing from Norse myth.

Weren't gnomes (in 1st ed. AD&D) supposed to be inspired by a character in Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions?

Actually, I think the (original) D&D dwarves are closer to Tolkien-like dwarves, while gnomes were closer to the mythical, more magical dwarves.
 

DreadArchon said:
Celestials and Demons are Christian-ish, but Angels are Theosophy, as per Gary Gygax in one of his threads.

IMHO, the treatment of Celestials in early D&D seems to owe a lot to late Platonism. Large chunks of the celestial hierarchy is drawn from late classical literature, especially Plotinus, Porphyry, and Iambilichus (e.g. Solars, Planetars, Archons). The same sources influenced early Christian thought by way of the works of Pseudo-Dionysus the Aereopagite.

The use of the term Deva to describe the Celestial beings is a little odd in this context as it appears to be drawn from Hindu mythology rather than Western mythology. I suspect that Gygax may have been thinking of the Daeva of Zoroastrian mythology rather than the Hindu concept, but have no way of proving this. The concept of Movanic Deva and Monadic Deva shows a clear Gnostic influence.

It should be also noted that the names of many of the demon lords are drawn from Classical sources. Demogorgon comes from annotations to Statius's Thebaid and was taken up by later writers (notably Milton in Paradise Lost).

Orcus was a god of the underworld from Roman mythology who was identified with the Greek god Hades. He seems to be of Etruscan origin.

Dispater is actually a generic term derived from the Latin words dives ('rich') and pater ('father'). Dispater was a title applied by Classical authors to various Roman and Celtic gods of the dead. The name appears a couple of times in Caesar's Gallic Wars.
 

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