the spell weaver

[kolikeos]

the spell weaver is an extremly powerful creature for its cr 9, it can kill one character per round with 30d4+30 points of magic missile dmg.
it's considerd a 12th level sorcerer for spellcasting plus it has its spell weaving ability, thats way over 9 cr.
a 12th level human sorcerer would be considerd cr 12, and this thing is clearly more powerful then a 12th level human sorcerer.
what do you think should be the cr for this creature?

 

[mzsylver]

What book is this crazy creature out of?

If you want broken creatures, check out MM2 & MM3.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It's from the Monster Manual II. I think mzsylver's post said enough.

Anyway, it reminds me very much of the Steel Dragon from wizards.com- it's a dragon that casts spells as a 21st-level Sorcerer, and has SR higher than anybody of its CR could beat (30-something for 4th-9th level spells, and 40-something for anything lower than that), as well as a host of other crap. It casts spells as an Epic Sorcerer, with the best HD, saves, and Base Attack in the game, as well as DR, SR, two breath weapons, and some Spell-Likes, and it's a CR 19. If that's the case, what's a 21st-level Sorcerer's CR?

 

[mzsylver]

p. 187

the spell weaver is an extremly powerful creature for its cr 9, it can kill one character per round with 30d4+30 points of magic missile dmg.
it's considerd a 12th level sorcerer for spellcasting plus it has its spell weaving ability, thats way over 9 cr.
a 12th level human sorcerer would be considerd cr 12, and this thing is clearly more powerful then a 12th level human sorcerer.
what do you think should be the cr for this creature?

Thanks Ultima. Found it.

For one, it is CR 10 not 12. Hmm... I'm not sure what it's CR should be. It only has 36 hit points and an AC of 18. It's Init bonus is only +3 so a lucky low level party can chop it in half before it acts.

30d4+30. That is around 105. That wont necessarily kill a PC but it is very likely at 10th level. I think it is hard to CR this creature because it is all offense and no defense. Its only real defense is SR 21, which at that level is like 50% MR.

If a party IDs it before it acts, they kill it knowing its true terror. Otherwise, it kills one person and then the party kills it. What would be wicked is to throw a whole bunch of these as tagalongs in higher level encounters. That would probably be the worst.

 

[kigmatzomat]

These things are nasty since by definition they only ambush people after studying them. IMO they should always have a few Charmed monsters as meat shields and plenty of party-specific defenses. Charms are great since they last days, preserving the Weaver's daily castings. Extended/Persistent Spells are also handy when cast from their battery. IIRC, the battery recharges at midnight so cast a bunch of extended/Persistent spells at 11:55 and plan on attacking at 12:15.

Proper tactics would be to send in the charmed monsters first, possibly with a summoned creature providing buff spells to the charmed ones. Then, while still under cover/invisible, toss Dispel Magics and indirect AE spells (i.e. Evard's) to nerf the party. Refrain from casting any direct-damage spells until identified or the bearer of the magical doodad is on the verge of being incapacitated.

 

[delericho]

I really like Spellweavers. I don't know if it's just that they're really creepy, if it's because they have a cool special ability, or if there's something in the write-up of the race itself, but they've always just grabbed me, ever since I first saw them (I think that was in Dragon magazine, but I might be mistaken).

Of course, I don't have them cast 6 magic missiles in the first round, so they've not proven quite as vicious as the OP describes, but I have still managed a total party kill using Spellweavers (slight mistake, that one - too many 'fodder' creatures giving the Spellweavers too much freedom to act).

 

[kolikeos]

yeah, i really like them too, i like most of the near-humanoid creepy-creatures (like mind flayers).
if they're suprised then they'll be easy pickin' for a low-mid to mid level party but if they're ready with their defensive spells (stoneskin, imp invisibility, ect) they can toast the party really fast.

 

[Li Shenron]

the spell weaver is an extremly powerful creature for its cr 9, it can kill one character per round with 30d4+30 points of magic missile dmg.
it's considerd a 12th level sorcerer for spellcasting plus it has its spell weaving ability, thats way over 9 cr.
a 12th level human sorcerer would be considerd cr 12, and this thing is clearly more powerful then a 12th level human sorcerer.
what do you think should be the cr for this creature?

Maybe they should not be allowed to cast the same spell 6 times, but only 6 different spells, as a first idea. That of course doesn't prevent them to still be extremely powerful...

IIRC the spell weaver is kind of weak in hp, is that so? This makes it difficult to guess the right CR. Definitely is should not have been less than 12th if he casts spells as a 12th level sorcerer, this seems absurd (but I think it's been done for other creatures as well).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Take a look at the rules for advancing a spellweaver.

 

[frankthedm]

Definitely is should not have been less than 12th if he casts spells as a 12th level sorcerer, this seems absurd (but I think it's been done for other creatures as well).

Customized NPC Gear and elite ability scores are a factor in determining a character's CR since monsters that "cast spells as [blank]" don't have either. Also for many critters a sorcerer spell stack could go nearly untouched in a normal encounter.

Though THAT magic missile mini-gun has been just as lethal since 2e and i will admit it is under CR'ed* along with the Banelar.

*If mainly due to MM being too good past 3 missles