D&D 5E 1st - 12nd Game Design

[DinoInDisguise]

I do like @DinoInDisguise idea though with magic items. You don't need Epic Boons for the eight psuedo-levels and could instead go "full-immersion" and make all increases in power be diegetic via magic items.

Might turn off multiclassing and turn multiclassing into feats. Maybe the first feat gives you the core features, and the second feat gives you a subclass feature? Will play with it to see.

It is not hard if you pay attention to the bonuses given by the level ups in 5e. They are fairly simple and revolve mostly around ASIs, feats, and proficiency bonus. All three translate nicely to items, and it gives you, the DM, fine control over player power curves.

For example, the difference in PB between 12 and 20 is a +2. So a level 12 with a +3 weapon and a level 20 with a +1 weapon, assuming the same primary stat, should be very close on "to hit" and "damage." Add in armor that gives HP, and a few "feat" items, and you may just end up with something close to where you want to be.

EDIT: Remember that skill checks largely can be ignored, as skill check DC changes are not required.

 

[Shardstone]

It is not hard if you pay attention to the bonuses given by the level ups in 5e. They are fairly simple and revolve mostly around ASIs, feats, and proficiency bonus. All three translate nicely to items, and it gives you, the DM, fine control over player power curves.

For example, the difference in PB between 12 and 20 is a +2. So a level 12 with a +3 weapon and a level 20 with a +1 weapon, assuming the same primary stat, should be very close on "to hit" and "damage." Add in armor that gives HP, and a few "feat" items, and you may just end up with something close to where you want to be.

EDIT: Remember that skill checks largely can be ignored, as skill check DC changes are not required.

Yes, this is a pretty attractive approach. I may indeed lean this way.

 

[Horwath]

Simple solution for spellcasters:
No spells above level 6 can be "learned",
Low levels spells can still be upcasted to levels 6-9.
Since upcasting generally sucks, to compensate, full casters get extra 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell slot at levels 11,13,15 and 17.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I like the idea of all 7+ spells being rituals that must be found and/or researched by 14th level (my preferred cut off) casters.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

All of your suggestions, hypothetically, could do the trick. But another option has a lighter footprint while filling that same void.

The issue at hand is 7th level spells and above. And the desire to use many of the sweet enemies and villains from CR 13 and above. The gap in player power between 12th level and 20th level has to therefore be filled.

This can be filled without deep alterations to the current system, as a mechanism already exists. That is magic items. A DM giving more and more powerful, items to a party can bridge that gap relatively quickly, with no meaningful rule changes. Because, as is, 5e's encounter math is balanced around no magic items, any item given to the players already plays a role in bridging the gap.

All that would have to be done, is a table showing the guidelines for how many magic items, and of which theoretical power level, are needed to do so. If we think about the progression of 5e's core math, it is only a +1 to hit here and there and some HP and feats that are really missing. These are very easily made up for with magic items - especially if you choose to raise the atunement cap.

I encourage people to try it. It works beautifully in the system as is. And allows you to do exactly that - max at level 12 and fight CR 20+.

This is ingenious.

 

[Stalker0]

3rd edition did some of the work for us with the notion of "Epic 6", which was 3rd edition but played only to 6th level, with another version "Epic 8". The concept is effectively the same, this is just higher level.

You could introduce feats at 12th level that lets the players continue to advance (or even epic boons). If you want, you can allow for a feat that grants like 1 7th level spell every week as a kind of ritual, that was utilized in E6.

I would say the biggest difference is that very high CR 5e monsters are still "defeatable" in this version through mass. For example, an army of archers can actually do solid damage to a great wyrm dragon....so if the party is able to leverage those resources (somehow) they could defeat high level threats. Only some high Cr monsters carry abilities that would make that just completely untenable. Contrast to 3e where many monsters had high enough DR or certain abilities that would remove any ability for a low level army to hurt them.

 

[Shardstone]

3rd edition did some of the work for us with the notion of "Epic 6", which was 3rd edition but played only to 6th level, with another version "Epic 8". The concept is effectively the same, this is just higher level.

You could introduce feats at 12th level that lets the players continue to advance (or even epic boons). If you want, you can allow for a feat that grants like 1 7th level spell every week as a kind of ritual, that was utilized in E6.

I would say the biggest difference is that very high CR 5e monsters are still "defeatable" in this version through mass. For example, an army of archers can actually do solid damage to a great wyrm dragon....so if the party is able to leverage those resources (somehow) they could defeat high level threats. Only some high Cr monsters carry abilities that would make that just completely untenable. Contrast to 3e where many monsters had high enough DR or certain abilities that would remove any ability for a low level army to hurt them.

The fact that it opens up hirelings and NPCs as a combat tool really makes it more appealing to me. Suddenly, building up that village's defenses REALLY matters, and allows IMO for the kind of scope that I want to enjoy with my fantasy.

 

[Dumapic]

I love this idea. My 5e games typically peter out at the level where the PC abilities start slowing the game down. So, why not just stop their progression at that point and continue the epic story?

3rd edition did some of the work for us with the notion of "Epic 6", which was 3rd edition but played only to 6th level, with another version "Epic 8". The concept is effectively the same, this is just higher level.

You could introduce feats at 12th level that lets the players continue to advance (or even epic boons). If you want, you can allow for a feat that grants like 1 7th level spell every week as a kind of ritual, that was utilized in E6.

For anyone who wants a trip down memory lane, Ryan Stoughton designed E6 and put down a lot of his thoughts and considerations behind it: E6: The Game Inside D&D

These rules lead to a lower level game than you're proposing, but with the same basic concept.