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The start of a Nentir Vale campaign

Blackbrrd

Adventurer
I just got started on a campaign taking place in Nentir vale, where I am going to use Reavers of Harkenworld (level 2-4) and Madness at Gardmore Abbey (level 6-8). I am hoping to run a campaign going from around level 1 to 10, with the players getting more and more control, power and responsibilty in the area.

Yesterday was the first session of the campaign, and already they derailed the whole thing. Or, should I say changed the course of the campaign markedly, as I was winging half of the session anyway.

They PC's entered an abondoned manor house on the edge of a small village called Redwood situated on the road between Fallcrest and Harken. There they found Stelian's (the Vrylokka Paladin/Sorcerer) ancestral armor. And the kobolds found them there and ambushed them. Both parties then got ambushed when the kobold fetishes and amulets got destroyed during the battle, releasing two ghosts (of the guards of the manor) and a roaming Spectre.

Stelian has some ancestral claim to the town, but it's over a hundred years old, and they had heard some rumours of weapon smuggling and wanted to check in on the local Knight, Erik Faust. Anything to discredit him would make it easier to get Stelian into the position as the knight of Redwood.

Anyway, the Bard, Leoward proceeded to get them all invited to the knights home, tricking Leah, the wife of the knight to hold a big feast. He held a great performance and the PC's gathered a lot of intelligence. Among other things, wealth that probably showed the rumors of smuggling to be true and also they uncovered the connection to the Iron Circle mercenaries and the coming invasion of Harkenworld.

Having read some of the DM hints found on this forum and in links from this forum, I tried to give all the hints multiple times, via varied means and it really payed off. The players came up with several theories and managed to settle on the right one after some good ideas on checking on which ones where real. Especially Leoward's player made some shrewd moves, weaving in tales of brave historical defenses of Harken and seeing the knight's momentary surprised look that gave confirmation that he was onto the real deal.

Skipping a lot more of the role-playing and little details the players discovered, they decided on going down to the river and the crossing not far from the ruins of Kalton Manor. They hoped to find some more clues, which they did. The dwarven druid Thaim and changed into a wolf when he ran into a trigger happy sentry. He ran back into the woods, when Lubash, the half-orc thug sneaked up on the sentry, stabbed him once during surprised, won initiative and killed him with the second stab. Good work, and they were still unnoticed.

That quickly went bad, but not until after Lubash had scouted the camp, seeing 13-14 people at the camp site, several barrels of supplies and the parts for a Catapult. Right after that, the wolf getting spotted a second time and shot, while Lubash ran into a third sentry that spotted him and they both bailed. Stelian and Leoward then openly walked into a welcoming band. Leoward did some name dropping , talking of the kobolds they were hunting for the knight Eric Faust. He managed to make the Iron Circle leader so unsure of what to do that he let them go.

Now, the players backed up a little and started to wonder what they were going to do here. The dead sentry would spill the beans that they were a liability and they reasoned that the Iron Circle guys at the camp would send one or more messengers that they would proceed to capture and interogate.

Now, I hadn't really planned on what they would do with the camp, and I thought the players reasoning to be good and sent a messenger, right into their ambush. They caught him alive and actually managed to subvert him to their cause. Fun times! He spilled the beans on the invasion plan, saying it was imminent and that the catapults and the supplies weren't necessary if the invasion went as planned.

The players reasoned that they should get back to the Baron at Fallcrest and tell their story there. Not the best solution for Harken maybe, bet very good if they wanted to discredit the knight at Redwood, that they wanted to remove from power!

Yet again, I was in unplanned territory and reasoned that the knight, Erik Faust, would get the necessary information the next day, get paranoid and would try to intercept them before they reached fallcrest. He travelled incognito with three of his own men and two men supplied by the Iron Circle. They caught up with the players just two hours walking outside Fallcrest.

The battle went badly, for both sides. Stelian, Thaim and Erik and his right-hand man went down at about the same time early in the fight. The PC's barely managed to save Thaim (his second wind was triggered after he had failed two death saves). Stelian managed to get into a fight with one Iron Circle representative and one of the men-at-arms, both nearly unhurt, while he was barely above bloodied. He managed to subvert the Iron Circle cutthroat with some good intimidate/diplomacy and they ganged up on the last man-at-arms.

... that is, the last one standing. One of the Iron Circle Cutthroats and run of, being chased by Lubash, the other man-at-arms getting hunted by the wolf-druid Thaim. Lubash finished his cutthroat followed the druid and they teamed up, taking down the last escaping combattant, but not before Lubash going down as well. The only PC not going down was Leoward.

Now, they PC's have just killed a noble (the knight Erik Faust), and are about to enter Fallcrest, telling the Baron about the smuggling taking place near Redwood. The PC's were hiding the death of the knight, but let his horse loose, so it will be discovered relatively quickly (it was a really expensive destrier, quite unique for the area).

I haven't yet planned on what happens next, but I think the PC's will find themself in trouble, possibly with relatives of the dead knight, possibly with the Baron of Fallcrest. They are one step closer to taking command of Redwood though, as it's keeper is dead. :cool:
 

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I am running the combat quite differently from the usually 3-5 encounters per day assumption. I am assuming that they will have some small mini-encounters and at most, one big fight a day. The big fights are therefore really, really though.

The big fights aren't something I will force on the players too much either. For instance they saw the camp, deemed it too hard and backed off. They pondered taking it down in several tries, but saw it as too risky as well. I really prefer this kind of play, where you can't be sure if a fight is one of those bite-sized encounters presented in typical 4e modules.

I helped put together the characters and optimized them as best I could, sacrifising survivability for damage. The Rogue, Lubash, for instance, has a "alpha" strike, using his racial encounter power and his class encounter power that does 3d8+2d6+7 damage. The druid's worst attack does 3d4+15 damage (divied on three opponents, while the Paladin/Sorcerer Stelian has a Close Burst 3 Burning Spray that does 1d8+8 damage. He has 20/14/14/15 in AC/NAD, but only 25 hp and no healing/temp hp. The bard has some ok control powers and good healing.

I really dislike how 4e makes the range of monsters available at each level really narrow, since the monsters get +1 attack/defense every level. Therefore, I adjust the to-hit/defenses of the monsters like they are at most +-1 level compared to the PC's. I leave the hp/damage alone though.

This way, it actually worked out having multiple level 4 or level 5 monstes in the encounters. The last encounter actually had 1x level 5, 1x level 4, 4x level 2 mobs. It really was over the top and it was starting to look like a total party wipe, but then the players started to use their characters for what they were worth. I really liked how the player of Stelian (who is supposed to be a noble from the south, with ties to Redwood) looks at the situation with two nearly full hp mobs and goes outside the hack-and-slash box and tries - and succeeds in subverting one of the Iron Circle cutthroats.

Strictly speaking, I might have been a bit lenient with Stelian's subversion of the cutthroat, but he had already failed his objective (avoiding a mess around the knight of Redwood) and had little to loose, switching sides. It also encourages my players to actually role play in combat as well. (He had kinda started that last fight showing of his family armor that clearly showed him to be a noble, and renouncing the knight as an imposter and what not.)

Now, I am going to run the two printed modules mentioned in the first post, but I think I will use them more as a setting, and not necessarily running them more than 50% as written. If I want my players to be flexible and put some effort into making the campaign theirs, I will have to mold the campaign to them.
 
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Sounds pretty classic to me :) The party has created a mission and a direction for itself. You could always go any number of ways with this. The Baron for instance might just think to himself that the PC is a better choice of knight, maybe because he knows a bit more than he should about how that transfer happened. Perhaps there's a connection between a PC and the Baron that would make this seem even more logical. The Iron Circle seem fairly thuggish, but they're not particularly stupid. They might send someone in under cover to discredit the party, assassinate one or more of them, etc.

Kobold Hall is another useful adventure. Its pretty vanilla, but the dragon is fairly tough and it is nice and short, though with more of a standard 5 combat day format (which isn't bad as a change of pace). You can also just make some crazy long action-packed days now and then, sometimes there isn't time for the PCs to stop and rest when things get rolling.
 

I just ran "Cairn of the Winter King" for my group, which is an oft-overlooked Nentir Vale adventure that comes with the Monster Vault. Very good. They enjoyed it thoroughly.

Don't forget to grab Threats to Nentir Vale if you don't already own it. Lots of monsters and named villains with great adventure hooks.
 

[...]
I really dislike how 4e makes the range of monsters available at each level really narrow, since the monsters get +1 attack/defense every level. Therefore, I adjust the to-hit/defenses of the monsters like they are at most +-1 level compared to the PC's. I leave the hp/damage alone though.[...]

Huh? Never had that feeling myself. In my current campaign the players faced enemies up to lvl 4 at level 1 and had an encounter with a lvl 12 (and some other monsters) when they were level 5 or 6.
And they encountered a horde of lvl 2 Zombies when they were level 7 or 8.

So quite a variety of level to face.


[...]
Don't forget to grab Threats to Nentir Vale if you don't already own it. Lots of monsters and named villains with great adventure hooks.
Second this! It's maybe the best 4e Book published.
 

I really dislike how 4e makes the range of monsters available at each level really narrow, since the monsters get +1 attack/defense every level. Therefore, I adjust the to-hit/defenses of the monsters like they are at most +-1 level compared to the PC's. I leave the hp/damage alone though.

Huh? Never had that feeling myself. In my current campaign the players faced enemies up to lvl 4 at level 1 and had an encounter with a lvl 12 (and some other monsters) when they were level 5 or 6.
And they encountered a horde of lvl 2 Zombies when they were level 7 or 8.

So quite a variety of level to face.

4e's wildly diverging testimonials is a curious thing. For every:

"4e's overwhelming balance concerns made it so there is only a small fraction of monsters available per level."

there is a:

"4e's tight and transparent math, subjective levels, and minion rules opened up the conceptual space per level, and per tier, such that you could reskin just about anything to bring it into play."
 

Sounds pretty classic to me :) The party has created a mission and a direction for itself. You could always go any number of ways with this. The Baron for instance might just think to himself that the PC is a better choice of knight, maybe because he knows a bit more than he should about how that transfer happened. Perhaps there's a connection between a PC and the Baron that would make this seem even more logical. The Iron Circle seem fairly thuggish, but they're not particularly stupid. They might send someone in under cover to discredit the party, assassinate one or more of them, etc.

Kobold Hall is another useful adventure. Its pretty vanilla, but the dragon is fairly tough and it is nice and short, though with more of a standard 5 combat day format (which isn't bad as a change of pace). You can also just make some crazy long action-packed days now and then, sometimes there isn't time for the PCs to stop and rest when things get rolling.

The party AND the Iron Circle are pretty thuggish, but both are smart. I wonder if I might make some diversions inside the Fallcrest, using the gangs and such noted in Threats of Nentir Vale. Maybe somebody else wants Redwood? I have got some time before we get to play next time (most likely in January), and I like pondering assorted schemes. The focus of the campaign is tying the characters to the area, with a focus on character ambitions. Stelian the pal/sorc wants some direct power (as a knight - or maybe Baron), while Lubash the rogue and Leoward the bard wants some power in the underworld. Maybe it's time to get their stories going?
 

4e's wildly diverging testimonials is a curious thing. For every:

"4e's overwhelming balance concerns made it so there is only a small fraction of monsters available per level."

there is a:

"4e's tight and transparent math, subjective levels, and minion rules opened up the conceptual space per level, and per tier, such that you could reskin just about anything to bring it into play."

The first quote point of view is using monsters straight from the monsters manual without changing them.
The second quote point of view is using the monster creator to alter the level of the monsters.

My way of doing it is a way between, very similar to 5e. HP/damage output scales depending on the level of the monster, while to-hit/defences remain relatively static relative to the players.

I have had encounters with hordes of low level mobs in 4e as well, and they were really boring. I played a Wizard who had gone for great AoE damage and just slaughtered them. They could barely hit us, and we could barely miss. I much prefer 5e's way of doing that, where a low level mob has a good chance of hitting you, but the damage might only be half of the normal. I have also been in encounters with mobs 5 levels higher, and the characters really do miss a lot. Sure the encounter went ok, but it's really boring when the PC's keep on missing. I just resorted to auto-damage attacks of assorted forms (Flaming Sphere and Magic Missile). The characters without such abilities kept on missing. Pretty boring for them.
 
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I have had encounters with hordes of low level mobs in 4e as well, and they were really boring. I played a Wizard who had gone for great AoE damage and just slaughtered them. They could barely hit us, and we could barely miss.

Have you ever attempted the below in a mass combat/horde situation:

1) Use multile, large (or larger), of level (or n + 1) Swarms.

2) At "Bloodied", break the Swarm out into an XP-budget equivalent number of Minions. Alternatively, break the Swarm out into an XP-budget equivalent number of "Bloodied" Standards with possibly a "Bloodied" Elite Leader amongst them.

That addresses all of the issues, lets the Wizard (or other AoE party) be effective in their shtick and makes the combat tactically and thematically robust.
 

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