log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E The Strongest Poisoner. New Tasha's Gish

Hohige

Explorer
So now you're a 5th level Sorcerer with:

Sleep
Mage Armor
Shield
Darkness
Fear
Hypnotic pattern

AND Fireball and Dragons breath?

You cant have that many 3rd level spells, let alone that many spells.

As soon as you deal any damage to him, his incapacitation ends.

You should really read the rules man.

As I said, I didn't create a character to be the most powerful of all. Just to be fun, different and playable at any table.


And I will prove to you that this is a powerful Gish, which is the goal here.

Sleep
Mage Armor
Shield
Hypnotic Pattern
Color Spray
Shadow Blade.
Darkness (Free)

1601921963110.png

Shadow Blade
I will fight you with your thematic spell. "Shadow Blade". Because better than being super powerful, it's being stylish (Shadow Sorcerer defeating enemies with a Shadow Blade).

3d8 + 4 with booming blade for extra 1d8 and 2d8 if the enemy movie.

Your HP is 43.
Color Spray upcasted is average 55 HP.

Quicken Color Spray, you are blinded.
Attack roll 6d20, Booming Blade for sweet 23 average damage + 9 if you move.
If crit, you are dead.

Next turn, repeat with level 1 color spray (33 avg HP).
You are dead.

This combo works very well against any class and very efficient against any monster.
If you are in non magical darkness, the Shadow Blade has free advantage a, then Double Booming Blade can deal more than 50 damage per turn with almost 100% chance of hit.
 

Attachments

  • 1601921951017.png
    1601921951017.png
    451.1 KB · Views: 193
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Hohige

Explorer
Lets just say, that character is good in many cases, But has severe weaknesses, especially if you want to party with him.
There are other level 5 efficient builds that don't run out of steam so fast, but the nova capabilities are impressive.
Severe Weaknesses?
 

Mistwell

Legend
It's an attack. Unerring Spell Repeat all attack modifiers, not a d20.

Making an Attack
Whether you’re striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or Making an Attack roll as part of a spell, an Attack has a simple structure.

  1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location.
  2. Determine modifiers. The GM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, Spells, Special Abilities, and other Effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your Attack roll.
  3. Resolve the Attack. You make the Attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular Attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause Special Effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If there’s ever any question whether something you’re doing counts as an Attack, the rule is simple: if you’re Making an Attack roll, you’re Making an Attack.


a die is just a die, Halfling's lucky or Lucky feats don't work as Unerring Spell.
RAW.
Either way, have fun playing the way your DM allows.

Your ruling appears contrary to the specific rule for this. But that appearance could be deceiving. If you're going to be able to persuade anyone your ruling is the right one, you're going to in the very least need to tweet to WOTC and get them to agree with your view on this. I don't think they will, but they are open to tweets and they do respond. Indeed, it's how we get 90% of Sage Advice.
 



As I said, I didn't create a character to be the most powerful of all. Just to be fun, different and playable at any table.


And I will prove to you that this is a powerful Gish, which is the goal here.

Sleep
Mage Armor
Shield
Hypnotic Pattern
Color Spray
Shadow Blade.
Darkness (Free)

View attachment 127018
Shadow Blade
I will fight you with your thematic spell. "Shadow Blade". Because better than being super powerful, it's being stylish (Shadow Sorcerer defeating enemies with a Shadow Blade).

3d8 + 4 with booming blade for extra 1d8 and 2d8 if the enemy movie.

Your HP is 43.
Color Spray upcasted is average 55 HP.

Quicken Color Spray, you are blinded.
Attack roll 6d20, Booming Blade for sweet 23 average damage + 9 if you move.
If crit, you are dead.

Next turn, repeat with level 1 color spray (33 avg HP).
You are dead.

This combo works very well against any class and very efficient against any monster.
If you are in non magical darkness, the Shadow Blade has free advantage a, then Double Booming Blade can deal more than 50 damage per turn with almost 100% chance of hit.

Its 4d20. Except that its not because the Steel Defender imposes disadvantage on the attack roll with its reaction cancelling out the advantage.

And after your hynotic pattern and upcast colour spray youre out of 3rd level slots.

So you've cast mage armor, color spray, hypnotic pattern, used 5 SP to create an additional 3rd level slot as a bonus action and then cast Shadow Blade with that slot the following round and then attacked with your action.

With no SP left to unerring spell the shadow blade or to quicken anything. I'm not incapacitated anymore (that ended when you cast shadow blade).

Your advantage to hit (I'm blinded this turn) is negated by the Steel Guardian imposing disadvantage with its reaction, and you have no SP left to Unerring spell it even if that is not the case. Ill cast shield if you do hit, so you likely miss.

You've now used all your SP, both 3rd level slots and a 1st level slot.

I've used a 1st level slot, a 2nd level slot and am now no longer incapacitated or blinded.

Ill attack twice with my greatsword and direct the SG to attack you. We can assume a few hits but you cast shield and block them.

You're now down both 3rd level slots, 2 x 1sts and all your SP. I'm no longer blinded or incapacitated. The SG and myself threaten you.

Your move.
 
Last edited:

Hohige

Explorer
Its 4d20. Except that its not because the Steel Defender imposes disadvantage on the attack roll with its reaction cancelling out the advantage.

And after your hynotic pattern and upcast colour spray youre out of 3rd level slots.

So you've cast mage armor, color spray, hypnotic pattern, used 5 SP to create an additional 3rd level slot as a bonus action and then cast Shadow Blade with that slot the following round and then attacked with your action.

With no SP left to unerring spell the shadow blade or to quicken anything. I'm not incapacitated anymore (that ended when you cast shadow blade).

Your advantage to hit (I'm blinded this turn) is negated by the Steel Guardians reaction. Ill cast shield if you do hit, so you likely miss.

You've now used all your SP, both 3rd level slots and a 1st level slot.

I've used a 1st level slot, a 2nd level slot and am now no longer incapacitated or blinded.

Ill attack twice with my greatsword and direct the SG to attack you. We can assume a few hits but you cast shield and block them.

You're now down both 3rd level slots, 2 x 1sts and all your SP. I'm no longer blinded or incapacitated. The SG and myself threaten you.

Your move.
Greatersword and Spellcasting?
Your greatersword, bow and spellcasting focus are mine.
SG imposes disadvantage only 5ft, useless. Just move a bit. 6d20
Incapacited, I cast Booming Blade until you take damage. For free damage.
 

Greatersword and Spellcasting?
Your greatersword, bow and spellcasting focus is mine.

Yes you can attack with a two handed weapon and also cast shield. You can hold the sword with one hand and cast.

It's been that way since 3E and has been confirmed as much by the devs.

What do you mean, the sword, bow and spellcasting focus are 'yours?' I dont recall you using the optional disarm action.

On turn 1 you cast Hypnotic pattern and used 5 SP to create another 3rd level slot as a bonus action.
[My turn 1 I'm incapacitated]
On turn 2 you upcast Chromatic orb with a 3rd level slot, and used a 2nd level slot for 2 extra SP as a bonus action.
[My turn 2 I'm inapacitated)
On turn 3 you cast Shadow blade as a bonus action (ending Hypnotic pattern) and used Booming blade as your action, making an attack with the Shadow blade, using unerring strike with those 2 SP. My Steel guardian imposed disadvantage on your attack roll cancelling out Elven Accuracy. You still hit (you got lucky) and I cast shield in response.
On my turn 3 I attacked you twice, and directed the Steel Guardian to attack you. You cast shield as a reaction and I missed.

It's now your turn 4. You're down 2 x 1sts, both 3rds, and a 2nd level slot. You have no SP and have Shadow blade (upcast to 3rd) and Mage armor running.

What do you want to do?
 
Last edited:

Hohige

Explorer
Yes you can attack with a two handed weapon and also cast shield. You can hold the sword with one hand and cast.

It's been that way since 3E and has been confirmed as much by the devs.

What do you mean, the sword, bow and spellcasting focus are 'yours?' I dont recall you using the optional disarm action.
Sorry, but your weapons are mine and spellcasting focus (No spells for you). You are incapacited for 10 rounds.
 


Hohige

Explorer
I'm not paralysed. I'm incapacitated.

"Oh! I disagreed about it!! It's no sense."

Just swap Hypnotic Patter for Fear and you lose your weapons and spellfocus and damaging you don't remove fear.
Do you still think you have a chance to win?

I don't even need it, just Color Spray with Booming Blade 6d20 is enough to defeat you, and SG can't stop the sorcerer's advantage because it has only 5ft range (This is a joke?).
 
Last edited:

Just swap Hypnotic Patter for Fear and you lose your weapons and spellfocus.

Schrodinger's sorcerer eh? Retconning 3 turns worth of actions, spells cast and spells known now?

If you cast Fear instead of Hypnotic pattern on turn 1 (I'm not holding anything on turn 1) I run away for 1 minute or until I no longer have LOS.

On my turn 1, my steel guardian moves up to you and attacks you (I can still use bonus actions to command it while frightened).

Then I plink you at range while my Steel Guardian rips you apart.

With the new Sage advice, I can simply close my eyes and repeat the Wisdom save at the end of each of my turns, but then you have advantage to hit me, so id wait a few turns for that.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Schrodinger's sorcerer eh? Retconning 3 turns worth of actions, spells cast and spells known now?

If you cast Fear instead of Hypnotic pattern on turn 1 (I'm not holding anything on turn 1) I run away for 1 minute or until I no longer have LOS.

On my turn 1, my steel guardian moves up to you and attacks you (I can still use bonus actions to command it while frightened).

Then I plink you at range while my Steel Guardian rips you apart.

With the new Sage advice, I can simply close my eyes and repeat the Wisdom save at the end of each of my turns, but then you have advantage to hit me, so id wait a few turns for that.
Dude, are you without your magic weapon (+0 to hit, lol) and spellfocus, still want to fight?

With the new Sage advice, I can simply close my eyes and repeat the Wisdom save at the end of each of my turns, but then you have advantage to hit me, so id wait a few turns for that.
No, It isn't there.

I don't need to disarm you. No hypnotic pattern or fear.
Color Spray and Booming blade alone is enough.
 

Dude, are you without your magic weapon and spellfocus, still want to fight?

I'm not holding my sword or my spell focus at the start of combat.

You only hold spell foci as you cast the spell, and my Sword is sheathed, and my bow is on my back.

Assume you go first AND I fail the save vs Fear.

I take the Dash action moving 40' away from you (now 60' away). The Steel Guardian moves up to you, and attacks you with my bonus action. It hits, and you shield it. I then close my eyes and my turn ends, and I get another Wisdom save vs Fear. Lets assume I fail.

Youre 60' away from me, with a Construct next to you. You've used 2 x 1sts and 3rd level slot.

It's your turn.
 

Hohige

Explorer
I'm not holding my sword or my spell focus at the start of combat.

You only hold spell foci as you cast the spell, and my Sword is sheathed, and my bow is on my back.

Assume you go first AND I fail the save vs Fear.

I take the Dash action moving 40' away from you (now 60' away). The Steel Guardian moves up to you, and attacks you with my bonus action. I then close my eyes and my turn ends, and I get another Wisdom save vs Fear. Lets assume I fail.

Youre 60' away from me, with a Construct next to you. You've used a 1st and 3rd level slot.

It's your turn.

Forget it man. I will not disarm you. It's not funny, it's unfair, no hypnotic pattern or fear. Turn 1: Color Spray, Booming Blade 6d20. 30% critical chance. Move a little bit so as not to be affected by the Steel Guardian's reaction. You're blind, your turn.

You want to know, better, Hypnotic Pattern, disarms you, without weapon, without spellfocus and drawing on the back "Kick me".
I start kicking you while I kill your construct.
 


Hohige

Explorer
Honestly, you'd be better off just Fire balling three times (using 5 SP to create an extra 3rd level slot).

For sure, Dragon Breath (Lighting damage) forcing you to use absorb element (lightning) and then quickne fireball. Repeating this until you die.
Dragon's Breath (Lighting) as action, Quickened Fireball
But it is not the thematic of the character, he is gish.
Color Spray and Booming Blade defeats the artificer in 2 turns.
As I said, I didn't create a character to be the strongest of all. It is to be thematic and fun.
If I really wanted to make a very powerful character he would be level 8.
 
Last edited:

Forget it man. I will not disarm you. It's not funny, it's unfair, no hypnotic pattern or fear. Turn 1: Color Spray, Booming Blade 6d20. 30% critical chance. Move a little bit so as not to be affected by the Steel Guardian's reaction. You're blind, your turn

It's 4d20, I'll assume you hit, and I cast shield to stop it.

On my turn I draw my sword and attack you twice, directing my guardian to do the same. Even with disadvantage you're likely hit at least once, so you can cast shield to stop it as well.

You've used a 3rd level slot on Color spray, 2 x 1st level slots on Mage armor and shield and 2 SP to Quicken Booming blade and 2 more for Unerring spell.

Your turn.
 

Hohige

Explorer
It's 4d20, I'll assume you hit, and I cast shield to stop it.

On my turn I draw my sword and attack you twice, directing my guardian to do the same. Even with disadvantage you're likely hit at least once, so you can cast shield to stop it as well.

You've used a 3rd level slot on Color spray, 2 x 1st level slots on Mage armor and shield and 2 SP to Quicken Booming blade and 2 more for Unerring spell.

Your turn.
6d20 is much more likely to be a critical hit than an miss. With Shield or not.


You have a disadvantage with +7 attack against 22 AC and hit. the other has 6d20 and you stop shield spell. For me, there is no reason to continue. It was enough for me. See you.
 

For sure, Dragon Breath (Lighting damage) forcing you to use absorb element (lightning) and then quickne fireball. Repeating this until you die.

Terrible action economy. You'd have to cast DB on turn 1 which prohibits anything else other than a cantrip. Next turn you can breath AND Fireball (quickened) but you're going to run out of juice fast.

Simply Fireballing and spamming a quickened cantrip is the way to do. The FB alone likely deals 28 damage (unlikely I make the save) halved for absorb elements, to 14 (plus an extra 14 damage if the Guardian is caught in the effect thanks to Warding Bond) and you can repeat it next turn to kill me dead.

Even with Absorb elements and the cantrip missing, it's 28 damage this turn.

Do I have to do this for you?
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top