The Suggestion spell
- Thread starter ForceUser
- Start date
Barbecue-about-to-be: "I suggest that you perform no actions except those which I explicitly order of you."
Dragon: "Eh? Why?"
DM: Dragon saves at +4 for unreasonable request.
Dragon: *chomp* "Yum, yum!"
OTOH, such a suggestion against a student, follower or some other creature/character that has good reason to trust your judgement/leadership might work out okay. It really depends.
Dragon: "Eh? Why?"
DM: Dragon saves at +4 for unreasonable request.
Dragon: *chomp* "Yum, yum!"
OTOH, such a suggestion against a student, follower or some other creature/character that has good reason to trust your judgement/leadership might work out okay. It really depends.
ForceUser said:
I had been thinking about that. (I read that comic too.) It seems legal, but to prevent abuse I think I'd rule it this way. The spell duration is is 1 hour/ level OR until completed. As soon as they are explicitly ordered to do something they have completed the command.
Celebrim
Legend
It's legal, but it's a reasonable request only in a situation in which the target is in doubt of his own judgement and has some reason to trust the caster. At all other times the target should have LARGE circumstantial saving throw bonus.
For example, its a reasonable request to a character that discovers that they have wandered into the middle of a minefield and has no idea how to get back out safely.
Another way to handle it is simply rule that such a statement, while legal (and probably unreasonable), effectively gives the target a saving throw each time the caster makes a new request, and give bonuses or penalties for reasonable or unreasonable requests as the new requests arise. Effectively, however worded, all such requests are identical to the statements, "I suggest you treat all my further suggestions as commands." or "I suggest that I am your master and you are my obedient slave." Generally speaking, that's not really any more reasonable than, "I suggest you commit suicide."
For example, its a reasonable request to a character that discovers that they have wandered into the middle of a minefield and has no idea how to get back out safely.
Another way to handle it is simply rule that such a statement, while legal (and probably unreasonable), effectively gives the target a saving throw each time the caster makes a new request, and give bonuses or penalties for reasonable or unreasonable requests as the new requests arise. Effectively, however worded, all such requests are identical to the statements, "I suggest you treat all my further suggestions as commands." or "I suggest that I am your master and you are my obedient slave." Generally speaking, that's not really any more reasonable than, "I suggest you commit suicide."
Infiniti2000
First Post
It's perfectly legal, but unreasonable. Suggesting someone take no actions is what it amounts to, though, as the power of suggestion only works on the commands given at the time the spell is cast. Later commands can be freely ignored because they are not part of the suggestion. IMO.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
As a related question, do folks see skills such as diplomacy and bluff as coming into play in the casting of Suggestion? That is, can you use diplomacy to make an unreasonable request sound more reasonable? ("Listen, we've got your side outnumbered and we've already killed two of your compatriots; I suggest that you turn traitor and start working on our side, helping us kill the remaining schmoes!")
Can you use bluff in a similar fashion? ("I know you're not supposed to tell anyone the password to the meeting-chamber, but your boss said it was an emergency and that he ordered you to give it to us; I suggest that you go ahead and tell us the password to the meeting-chamber.")
Daniel
Can you use bluff in a similar fashion? ("I know you're not supposed to tell anyone the password to the meeting-chamber, but your boss said it was an emergency and that he ordered you to give it to us; I suggest that you go ahead and tell us the password to the meeting-chamber.")
Daniel
Infiniti2000
First Post
I'll answer with a question...can you use any skill to increase the DC of any other spell? Can you bluff someone into not dodging a fireball as well?
If the answer is no, then I'd also say no. Otherwise, you need to consider raising the level of suggestion. On the other hand, using a bluff check would be (at least) a standard action of its own, so to combine it would suggestion would require two rounds or a quickened suggestion*.
* Can you do such a thing I wonder?
If the answer is no, then I'd also say no. Otherwise, you need to consider raising the level of suggestion. On the other hand, using a bluff check would be (at least) a standard action of its own, so to combine it would suggestion would require two rounds or a quickened suggestion*.
* Can you do such a thing I wonder?
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