The Swashbuckling Rogue
- Thread starter andargor
- Start date
Elric said:
Each feat in the UDP chain provide an AC bonus dependent on CL, which each additional feat making it more "efficient". It is akin to the "Defense Bonus" in other d20 games.
EDIT: I may be off by one in the AC calculation for a couple of levels for UDP Intermediate. My formula in PCGen isn't perfect...
Andargor
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Darklone said:
Indeed. Our campaign has the regular magic items, but we can't buy them, we have to find them. And random treasure seldom yields highly customized magic items. We can only sell them for money, which we mostly hoard or spend on scroll making or spellbook scribing. But then again, we seldom have more than a day's rest, so we hoard
With this perspective, and the fact that you blow a bunch of feats, it sounds reasonable to me. (I know, this character was "optimized", wouldn't happen if he was "real")
Andargor
Has anyone used those armor feats and dex is damage bonus feats? Are they balanced or do they horribly wreck the typical tank?
Lets say a 1st level human fighter took all 3 of those armor feats (by my calc he could unless some prereq's are missing) and he had a 16 dex he'd have an AC20 at first level with no movement penalties, etc. At 8th level he'd have AC25 if he managed to raise his dex to 18 with stat raises (still no magic dex enhancer). If he took the other dex feats and use a +1 rapier he'd have +13 to hit and do 1d6+5 damage (without weapon focus and spec)
A standard armor weilding full plate guy with a shield would have AC21 at first level (full plate and shield with 12 dex if he could even find full plate). At 8th level lets assume he's walking around with +2 plate and +2 shield that's AC25 and if he's using a +1 longsword he's doing 1d8+5 too.
They look relatively balanced on a quick calculation. One PC uses up 5 feats (3 armor feats, 2 weapon finese feats) the other PC uses up 10,000gp worth of magic armor.
I don't know about the armor feats though, can you still use a shield? What about large weapons?
Lets say a 1st level human fighter took all 3 of those armor feats (by my calc he could unless some prereq's are missing) and he had a 16 dex he'd have an AC20 at first level with no movement penalties, etc. At 8th level he'd have AC25 if he managed to raise his dex to 18 with stat raises (still no magic dex enhancer). If he took the other dex feats and use a +1 rapier he'd have +13 to hit and do 1d6+5 damage (without weapon focus and spec)
A standard armor weilding full plate guy with a shield would have AC21 at first level (full plate and shield with 12 dex if he could even find full plate). At 8th level lets assume he's walking around with +2 plate and +2 shield that's AC25 and if he's using a +1 longsword he's doing 1d8+5 too.
They look relatively balanced on a quick calculation. One PC uses up 5 feats (3 armor feats, 2 weapon finese feats) the other PC uses up 10,000gp worth of magic armor.
I don't know about the armor feats though, can you still use a shield? What about large weapons?
Taren Seeker
First Post
Judging by your references to an extra partial, I think you're using the old version of Expert Tactition. Errata limits it to an extra attack, not a partial action.
Also, even with bluffing as a free action, I would assign ever-increasing bonuses to your target's Sense Motive roll if you continuously feint him.
As for the unarmored feats, in a really low magic world I'd say they're balanced, but judging by your gear I'd say they're broken. As you say you need to find items, but somehow I doubt that you'll never find bracers of armor, rings of prot or stat enhancers. Even if not, someone casting Mage Armor and Cat's Grace on you is enough to throw the system out of whack.
I'd be tempted to allow Improved Finesse if you're using the 3.5 system, as finesse fighters need all the help they could get now. This is the version of imp finesse where the target needs to be vulnerable to crits, right?
Also, even with bluffing as a free action, I would assign ever-increasing bonuses to your target's Sense Motive roll if you continuously feint him.
As for the unarmored feats, in a really low magic world I'd say they're balanced, but judging by your gear I'd say they're broken. As you say you need to find items, but somehow I doubt that you'll never find bracers of armor, rings of prot or stat enhancers. Even if not, someone casting Mage Armor and Cat's Grace on you is enough to throw the system out of whack.
I'd be tempted to allow Improved Finesse if you're using the 3.5 system, as finesse fighters need all the help they could get now. This is the version of imp finesse where the target needs to be vulnerable to crits, right?
Re: Re: The Swashbuckling Rogue
I remember that thread, and don't really want to repeat it. But I do disagree with you on a few minor points. I agree that you must make an attack for ET to trigger. So, the best you could do with QttE is 1 per round.
But, in the case of feint as a free action, the person is taking multiple attacks in a round. That means they can qualify for ET each time they attack, assuming you can take free actions in the middle of a full attack. Attack isn't a full round, it can be a part of the round, so the first attack from an invisible person cancels invisibility and any iterative attacks are from a visible person (assuming 2nd level spell).
But only one attack is sneak attack per bluff. So, in a round it would be feint (free), attack w/ sneak attack, attack from ET without sneak attack, feint (free), ET attack w/ sneak attack, iterative attack. The result is 2 extra attacks at full attack.
Please note: I think this is a rule hole and should be closed by any sane DM via rule 0. Expert Tactician has always been a pain in the rear, and there is no core-rules method to get a free action bluff.
Hypersmurf said:
I remember that thread, and don't really want to repeat it. But I do disagree with you on a few minor points. I agree that you must make an attack for ET to trigger. So, the best you could do with QttE is 1 per round.
But, in the case of feint as a free action, the person is taking multiple attacks in a round. That means they can qualify for ET each time they attack, assuming you can take free actions in the middle of a full attack. Attack isn't a full round, it can be a part of the round, so the first attack from an invisible person cancels invisibility and any iterative attacks are from a visible person (assuming 2nd level spell).
But only one attack is sneak attack per bluff. So, in a round it would be feint (free), attack w/ sneak attack, attack from ET without sneak attack, feint (free), ET attack w/ sneak attack, iterative attack. The result is 2 extra attacks at full attack.
Please note: I think this is a rule hole and should be closed by any sane DM via rule 0. Expert Tactician has always been a pain in the rear, and there is no core-rules method to get a free action bluff.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re: Re: The Swashbuckling Rogue
Then I'll leave it there, because the S&S FAQ ruling to me looks as if it were written by someone going from memory as to how they think it might be supposed to maybe work, as opposed to with the text of the feats in from of them.
Sort of like the Divine Might ruling in the Dotf FAQ.
-Hyp.
Then I'll leave it there, because the S&S FAQ ruling to me looks as if it were written by someone going from memory as to how they think it might be supposed to maybe work, as opposed to with the text of the feats in from of them.
Sort of like the Divine Might ruling in the Dotf FAQ.
-Hyp.
