The term 'Armor Class' needs to go

[Reaper Steve]

To be clear:
I'm all for keeping the term 'Armor Class'...just not as the term for what sets the DC of an attack roll. Attack should be opposed by Defense.
The answer to 'What's your Armor Class?" shouldn't be '18.' The term's all wrong.
AC has much more to do with many varied modifiers than just just armor. Plus, the definition of class (per dictionary.com) is: '1. a number of persons or things regarded as forming a group by reason of common attributes, characteristics, qualities, or traits; kind; sort: a class of objects used in daily living.' Therefore 'armor class' impiles one of several groupings of armor versus a finite number.
Suggested uses for armor class could be:
--light, medium, heavy (as already suggested). This could be extrapolated into more function by replacing the max dex bonus with a mechanic based on the armor class.
--By damage reduction type: d4/piercing, d6/slashing, etc
--something else that designers have already dreamed up.

I agree that armor class and hit points are iconic to D&D, but I also think that if they are 'questioning everything' and trying to make it less archaic and as intuitive as possible, Defense is the way to go. Armor Class can still serve a role appropriate to its name.

I wonder if a WotC type can give us a Yes/No?

 

[Thurbane]

..and Saving Throws should become Resistance Rolls, and Hit Points should become Vitality Score...and so on so forth until everything that makes D&D distinctive is gone.

Viva la d20 Generic Fantasy!

 

[Reaper Steve]

..and Saving Throws should become Resistance Rolls, and Hit Points should become Vitality Score...and so on so forth until everything that makes D&D distinctive is gone.

Viva la d20 Generic Fantasy!

Well, not in my opinion. I'm not advocating change for change's sake. Ultimately, R&D or Development will declare it a sacred cow, or take note that even though many other games use hit points, they all have moved on from Armor Class and do the same.

I just think that with the 4E 'we'll tear down the ivory tower and tell you what we're thinking' approach to game design, leaving the term just for historical value would be wrong. Game terms should mean exactly what they say, and armor class doesn't.

OK, then, I need something slightly less trivial to worry about, so I'm off to try to finish my S&S Saga character. Maybe I'll bump his Dex up to increase his Defense.

 

[Thurbane]

Actually I was just being a bit crotchety - I can certainly see your point in the terminology...I guess after 20 years AC has just become second nature to me.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Yet another individual preference that someone feels should be made the new standard in 4E.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

I would like to see the term "armour class" go the way of "thac0."

I do want to hear more about how armour is going to work in 4th Edition. What's this about adding to Fortitude/Damage saves? Is that going to work just like the mechanic in True20?

 

[Baby Samurai]

I have a feeling we will see Touch AC go bye bye, but I think the AC/Saves/Defence etc breakdown might go down like this:

AC X (flat-footed X)
Defences Fort X, Ref X (flat-footed X), Will X

 

[Baduin]

Armor class should be the class of the armor - ie the bonus armor gives to the Defence. There would be other bonuses - dexterity etc.

The damage reduction is not incompatible with armor giving bonus to defence - in fact, every practical implementation of the idea (Conan D20, True20, I think also Iron Heroes) includes a way to bypass the armor, by rolling attact against increased defence. In practice, the armor as damage reduction is optional. But it is a useful option, since armor should help against eg some types of magic, like fireball.

I think that the armor as damage reduction is a red herring. It is possible, but hardly necessary. What is really needed is a level bonus to defence. At present there is no easy way to build an unarmored fighter. Each class designed to fight without armor needs special rules. Each class designed to fight in armor must have magic armor and special magic items to avoid being hit. That is the problem, and the solution from Star Wars Saga is at least a good beginning. Certainly armor should be more useful than in Saga, for some classes at least.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yet another individual preference that someone feels should be made the new standard in 4E.

Well, isn't that the root of all of the edition changes, ultimately?

 

[Baby Samurai]

Well, isn't that the root of all of the edition changes, ultimately?

Exactly, it all starts with house-rules, baby!