D&D General The Tyranny of Rarity

[Maxperson]

I think the average DM uses other aspects to make up for it.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this aspect of the game.

My point is it can be. And if the DM copies alot or changes little, it is morelikely that they will run into someone bored with it.

Sure. If a DM isn't changing much(say playing the Realms the vast majority of the time) and has a high turnover rate for players, odds are good he's going run into people who are bored with the Realms.

So you believe a DM can create a boring setting?

Absolutely, but in my experience this isn't tied to race at all. Boring settings are primarily boring due to lack of lore, poor storylines, and/or poorly played NPCs. I can't think of a single instance where I was bored in a game due to race.

That's why I stated a "noticeable percentage". I don't have the data to say its a majority.

But it happens enough that we notice it.

Yes. My point is that due to sheer numbers on the internet and humanity's penchant for complaining, that percentage could be .01 and we would still notice it. I'm not saying that it is .01, but only that "noticeable" isn't much of a metric to go by anymore. Just being noticeable isn't enough to justify change.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No offense man, because I usually find most of your posts very reasonable, but...so what?

I mean, the whole point is that some of the top-down view of how games should be run dates back to the beginning of the hobby. That's why its often taken as gospel. But that doesn't say anything about whether its the best approach, just that its functional and what people are used to (especially in the D&D sphere).

No one's arguing it's the best approach. But your approach is not inherently superior to it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'm just explaining where the conflict comes from.

IME, DM, worldbuilders, and WOTC aren't breaking the mold that often. And this creates the tradition vs innovation divide in this almost 50 year old game.

I am sure that a lot of people in D&D sphere like D&D traditions and thus play games accordingly. But where is your proof that 1) this is problem 2) the players are more innovative than the GMs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Explain the yikes?


It's not the DM's sole job to make the fun.

The campaign's combats might be great
The campaign's interactions might be great
The campaign's exploration might be great
However if the setting is a copy and paste of one of most popular settings, it takes an above average DM to keep that aspect of the game interesting.


My criticisms are not a targeted attack against you or any other poster.

My point is that copying 10, 20, 30, 40 year old fantasy tropes whole cloth might not excite the long time fantasy fan or D&D fan.

DMs aren't authors and I've been a proponent of Worldbuilding help in the DMG for

I'm just explaining where the conflict comes from.

IME, DM, worldbuilders, and WOTC aren't breaking the mold that often. And this creates the tradition vs innovation divide in this almost 50 year old game.

Breaking the mold is not inherently better than honoring it.

 

[Minigiant]

I am sure that a lot of people in D&D sphere like D&D traditions and thus play games accordingly. But where is your proof that 1) this is problem

This thread
The many popular official races created after the PHB
The many popular unofficial races created after the PHB
Custom Lineage
TCOE race customization

If everyone loved what existed, none of these other things would be popular or even existent.

2) the players are more innovative than the GMs?

Never said that.

What I said is it's easier to be innovative with a PC than a setting as one is smaller than the other.

What I've said is D&D does not teach objective worldbuilding so the average DM doesn't know how to create an interesting homebrew setting for anyone but themselves.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You can't get to the good cheese without breaking the mold.

 

[Minigiant]

Breaking the mold is not inherently better than honoring it.

True.

But by definion, a copy isn't a fresh concept.

 

[Oofta]

No.
But "It's not my problem" is one of the ways a game dies.

No. No all DMs are selfish bastards.

But DMing is a selfish bastards' dream. You can force your desires on others and there are enough players that eventually you'll get a group. Especially now with the internet and 5e's explosion.

A very selfish DM can still get games now and it's kinda scary.

There are many types of bad DMs. I don't understand your seeming obsession with "selfish" ones. A certain percentage of people that play D&D have always and will always be willing to DM.

So it doesn't matter if 100 thousand people are playing D&D or 100 million. In absolute numbers there are more bad DMs. Percentage of DMs to players? It would be illogical to think that there's a higher percentage of bad DMs than before.

The odds of any individual getting a bad DM is the same it's always been.

 

[Scars Unseen]

If a campaign being good or not has nothing to do with the races allowed, then why bar any?

I believe that it does matter. I think most people in this thread agree that it matters. I just think if "What races are available" matters for the DM and that's understandable, then I don't see how "What races are available" shouldn't matter for the players.

On the first part, you're misconstruing my words. Again. On the second, If races available matters to a player, they should find a group that caters to their tastes. If the DM of the group they are considering playing with isn't entertaining that preference, then they can either compromise their preferences or reconsider that group.

Now you could try to flip that around and say that the DM has the same choice, but in my experience, it's pretty easy for a DM to find players, so it's not exactly an equal situation. A DM, especially a good one, is rarely going to find themselves across the table from an entire group who isn't interested in their game.

But to be honest, with all the tools available to find a group and with online gaming being what it is, a player should have little trouble finding another group if they leave anyway. The hobby is pretty popular right now as long as you're looking to play 5E specifically. This whole discussion feels like 21st century pundits arguing a 20th century situation. Just find a group you're comfortable with and none of this matters.

 

[Oofta]

Oops.