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The unmentioned guides - Vampires Handbooks

MonkLover

First Post
The Vampire class is much maligned in large by the 4E Char-op group as being a sub par class, having said that, however there will always be those who gravitate to it for its flavour and challenges in playing. In that mein I thought it would be useful to include 2 guides that discuss ways to get the most bang for your buck out of this class.


Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

I just Don't Want to Suck, A Vampire Handbook


Disclaimer:
what this handbook is and isn’t is a little different than the standard char op handbooks.


bloodbites.com - Vampire and gothic layouts, pictures, creepy stickers, and more

What it is: This handbook is all about making the best of a bad situation. If you are already of the mindset that you want to play a vampire, this is the handbook that will help you make some important choices. This is for the people who are willing to rough it, and play a challenging character for the fun of it. I have found the base concept of Vampire is popular enough to make it still a played class, I do not believe it is even the least played class…this is the guide for people making the willing and informed choice to play a vampire.

What it is NOT: This handbook is not the best damage, or best striker, or how to make a killer combo character. This is also not the place to complain about the class, we have heard it all before… straight jacket, underpowered, weak, even unplayable have all been thrown around.



This Handbook uses the following system for ratings:

Red: An useless or overshadowed option (from 0/10 to 2/10)
Violet: An option insufficient for most needs but that can be worked, with some difficulty, into something good (from 3/10 to 5/10)
Black: An option sufficient for your needs but nothing more (from 6/10 to 7/10)
Blue: A solid choice which should be always taken into account (from 8/10 to 9/10)
Sky Blue: The best choice in a single spot. These choices are never wrong (10/10)
Gold: A rare rating given to specify that if you make another choice, you are probably doing something wrong (mandatory, without rank)
Unranked: sometimes choices are out of rank. I'm reserving this green hue for this strange need, usually for non combat-related powers.

This Handbook will cover the following sources:
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AP - Arcane Power

AV - Adventurer's Vault

AV 2 - Adventurer's Vault 2

D XXX - Dragon Magazine, issue XXX

DMA 2009 - Dragon Magazine Annual 2009

DP - Divine Power

DSCS - Dark Sun Campaign Setting

Du XXX - Dungeon Magazine, issue XXX

E1 - Death's Reach (Adventure)

EPG-Ebberon Players Guide

FRPG - Forgotten Realms Player's Guide

HoFL - Heroes of Fallen Lands

HoFK - Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms

Homm - Village of Hommlet (Adventure)

HoS - Heroes of Shadow

NCG - Neverwinter Campaign Guide

MOTP - Manual of the Planes

MP - Martial Power

MP2- Martial Power 2

P1 - King of the Trollhaunt Warrens (Adventure)

P2 - Demon Queen Enclave (Adventure)

P3 - Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress (Adventure)

PHB - Player's Handbook

PHB 2 - Player's Handbook 2

PHB 3 - Player's Handbook 3

PHB D - Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn

PHB T - Player's Handbook Races: Tiefling

PHH 1 - Player's Handbook Heroes: Series 1

PHH 2 - Player's Handbook Heroes: Series 2

PP - Primal Power

PsP - Psionic Power [/sblock]

Special Thanks to: LDB for the standard handbook format, and Nausicaa who I copy and pasted said format from.

Anyone with comments, suggestions, or contributions to make to the guide, but please remember this is trying to make the best of a bad situation, so if we can keep the nay saying to a minimum.

class traits
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Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: cloth and simple- This means you are going to NEED AC boosting feats.
Implement Proficiency: Holy symbol, and ki focus- It was an odd choice to go with but I like the holy symbols.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12+ Constitution Score, Hit Points per Level Gained: 5- This is standard striker fair.

Healing Surges per Day: 2- Dun Dun Dun... No con mod to surges per day, and some class love in regaining them. This is what will make you HAVE to drink blood.

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class features
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Blood Is Life: During a short rest this will bring you back to full in one of two ways. I suggest you talk to your party ahead of time, because they need to give you a surge for one of those ways. The other way is to have more surges then your full amount (normally 2). Either way getting 2 surges for 1 is a good but not great deal, and since you regen to bloodied(see enduring soul), all you ever need is one surge.

Child of the Night: This is the big feature. It makes you undead, and vunrability, and really, you need to look at it. Read this 10 times before you make your character and every few weeks well playing it.

Enduring Soul: This one will keep you alive...um undead. It will make you regen when you are bloodied. It is important that you know regen turns off at 0. So make sure you stay up. The most important thing for you is to never drop below 0.

Hidden Might: This is your striker feature. It adds your cha mod to damage the same way slayers add dex. It is not going to take on the fly figures, or extra dice, it just puts a larger number after the d in your damage line.

Vampiric Reflexes: When not wearing any armor, or only cloth, and no shield you get a +2 AC and Ref, so it almost looks like you have defences.

Night crawler: At level 8 you get a climb speed, and with some work this can make you have some fun, but as far as optimazation goes, I just dont see it.

Vital Consumtion: I almost feel like this should be your level 4 power. WHen you use one of those attack powers that cst a surge you gain temp hp.

Energized blood drinker: At level 23 your blood drinker power gains temp hp with the surge.

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class Stats
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Str-again counter intuitive, but str really does so little for you

Con- by losing your Con mod to surges you lose any reason to put any points here…I would suggest a 10-12 here

Dex- This is your bread and butter, it should be atleast a 16, I would suggest an 18 just because with everything else stacked against them, you need that +1 to hit.

Int- three of your class skills go off of Int, but really there is not much here for you to use. If you can dump it, it is only flavor why you want more then a 10.

Wis- Like Int, wis is in the same boat, only worse it only has 1 skill (perception) and even if it seems like a good skill, maybe this is the time to leave it to others.

Cha- This is both your striker and your regen mechanic, it might be even more important then dex in some eyes, but here I am listing it at second most important stat. think 15+ here
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Races
[sblock] If you don't see a race here, it is eaither only a Monster right up, or a RED choice, I just didn't list the reds
Bladeling- gets a bonus to Dex, and not much else. I only mention it in passing, not suggested.

Changling- Ok, so Dex and Cha, and an OK race set up. I guess it is thematic (come on shapeshifter vamp), but changling still is far from the most supported or optimal option.

Deva- Ok, it seems odd at first, but the radiant resistance, the cha boost, and a good race power and some ok feats.

Dragonborn- Ok, it is worse than you think the cha bonus is ok, and breath weapon is always good, but the Heritage and Fury powers are worth much less because they rarely use there surge value, and they at least in theory spend less time bloodied because of the regen.

Drow- Now here we have a real choice. +dex and Cha, some good feats, and if you can convince the DM then there encounter power “Cloud of Darkness” might block the sun.

Eladrin-You get your choice of Cha or Dex, which is a good start. Fey step has a lot of support and teleport is a good option, but that long sword prof and trance are wasted features. If you use the switch rules from never winter for sub races, you can get this up to Blue.

Elf- +2 dex, and Elvin accuracy. A good speed boost. Feats and up and coming race utilities, this
might just be a reak choice.

Githzerai- dex boost, iron mind, and a boost to initiative. It looks good, but not much support outside of phb3.

Gnoll- It really makes an ok vamp. I would not count on blood fury that much. But good stats and pack fighting help.

Gnome- Ok, I really wanted to make this one work, if only for the laugh at making a gnome striker, but The stealth powers, and choice of dex or cha make a good shot. Also Small does not change the basic attack from being a d10.

Half elf- You know what, they make good everything…I mean dual heritage gives you all the feats you ever need, and Cha bonus. Think dilatant or Knack are both good choices, they are.

Hafling- Yes please, + both dex and Cha and second chance. It is a small death dealer.

Half orc- Temp Hp when bloodied, and a bonus to Dex, not bad, but not great. I don't think furius assault is a big deal with implment attacks, atleast not as big as +1w gets.

Human- You know the main bonuses, but the downside one is no extra at will to grab. There new race power instead is the only thing keeping it blue.

Revenant- Like half elf this one is good for a lot of classes, but it makes a funny double undead here. Dex and Cha to start, and I think the dark reaping can help sure up your damage a bit

Shadar Kai- See eladrin. It seems like a watered down eladrin, so play at your own risk.

Shade- This one seems like it was meant to be, the cha regen helps lessen the shade weakness, and cha dex again. Free stealth is nice, and for a regen character the wasted standard to hide allows a round to breath. A dark and shadow born vampire looks like a theme fit as well. IF your DM belives that draining surges past 0 is damage, this will drop to Black.

Shifter- The razor claw has Dex, and other then that there is very little here.

Shardmind- Ok let’s just say of all the craziness this one might just be the funniest. It gets cha, and some Ok powers…but really good luck convincing the Dm of this one.

Thri-kreen- Dex bonus and an Ok race power. I am sure there is some value here, even if it does take work.

Tiefling- +cha, and infernal wraith. It has some good feats. You could do worse.

Vryloka- This race was made for this class…nuff said I really wanted to showcase this is the best possible choice, but there is not something inbetween this and Gold.

Wilden- + to dex but not much else

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Class Skills
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Acrobatics (Dex), It keys off your prime stat, helps you escape from grabs, and negates falling damage. It also has some Ok skill powers, it is a good bet.
Arcana
(Int), It looks like a good skill, but without a reason to take Int to back it up, leave this to the others in your party

Athletics (Str), Str is a trap, str skills are a trap. Take Acrobatics instead.

Bluff (Cha), It keys off your secondary, seems to fit the Vamp theme, and has some good choices of skill powers. If your a changling this is Sky Blue.

Diplomacy (Cha), It keys off your secondary, seems to fit the Vamp theme, but has no good choices of skill powers.

History (Int), It keys off a dump stat, and doesn't have much in the way of skill powers, it does look good theme wise, so I will give it the benfet of the doubt here.

Intimidate (Cha),It keys off your secondary, seems to fit the Vamp theme, and has some good choices of skill powers.

Perception (Wis), Any other handbook I would rate this atleast blue if not gold, it is the most useful skill in the game, and the most common to roll, and even with no wis it is a good investment, even if not the best.

Religion (Int), It keys off a dump stat, and doesn't have much in the way of skill powers, it doesn't even look good theme wise.

Stealth (Dex),Prime stat, ok skill power, and good theme fit. It can also come in handy in alot of ways

Thievery (Dex).Prime stat, ok skill power, and good theme fit. It can also come in handy in alot of ways

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At will powers
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The trick with your at wills is that each targets a diffrent NAD, so the better you are at guessing the weak defence the better you are.
Dark beckoning- Ok pro it could be your most accurate attack (Cha+2 vs will) Con, it is range 5 and you need melee to trigger your encounter powers. It is also low damage. Even when people tell you the power of the at wills is chooseing the NAD to target, remember will is a last ditch attack.

Taste of life- It gives temps, does middle of the road damge, and it targets fort. It also however is necrotic damage and as such very ressistable.

Vampire slam- It is your basic attack, it is already set with a d10 damage (just about the best you can hope for with implment) Vampire Slam is your can opener, Blood drinker is your spoon. This is most likely to make you feel like a striker right here.

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Encounter powers
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Blood Drinker- It is alost like the slayer Power strike, but adding D10's instead of Ws. It is triggered on a hit from a melee vampire at will, so no stacking with feral assault.unleash fury, and no poaching other at wills with half elf to help.

Feral Assault/unleash fury- yea, I don't get why this was nto one scaleing power, but they made it two. If you have extra surges they almost seam like good idea's (so last half of heroic and into paragon) but when you first get Feral Assault it almost feels like a trap. Spend a surge for 2d8 extra damage, or an extra target is only good when you have the surges to spend.

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Daily Powers
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SWARM OF SHADOWS/HUNGRY SWARM/CONSUMING SWARM- Close blast 3 (5 at epic) targeting fort, some mobility(teleport into blast) and blind. I almost feel like the righter saw the rouge blinding barrage, and used it as a base. I am unsure why it is diffrent powers instead of scaleing X d6. It is a good but not great damage, and a nice bit of control. Since they are leveled they CAN be swaped with multi class.

UNFETTERED HUNGER - this one is kind like a barbarian rage, you hit or miss for damage, and gain a bonus to attack and damge for the rest of the encounter. There is a reason this does not scale...it need not. It is most likly the best power you have at any point. 2d10 damage in close burst 1 is OK, but the encounte long buff of +2 to hit +4 damage and increase to your shift is almost GOLD level striker coolness, and the no spending surges to heal is almost a joke, if you are doing it right you should be able to count on one hand how many surges you burn mid encounter to heal. The down side is if it is going bad and one of those times you are droped...well this ends badly.

DOMINEERING GAZE/IRRESISTIBLE GAZE- Ok so when you thinkk striker Dominate does not come to mind. However add the line of stealing a surge AND dealing your surge value and it sounds more like it. The higher level one also comes with an after effect of daze and ongoing. As long as you kept your cha within 2 of your dex this is also a very accurate attack.

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Utility Powers
[sblock] Now even the levels with only 1 power you have some choices, if your Race has race powers or a theme, or skill powers. This is the most under valued plart of the class, all those options people want, well here is where we start to get them.

level 2
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2 encounter powers to choose from at this point. Both are minor action Close Blast 5 that only target one creature in blast.

Charming Gaze- Stoping opp attacks is ok, but not really a striker thing, and a bonus to bluff or diplomacy seems a little weak

Hunter's Gaze-
Combat advantage and Intimadate bonus sounds much better, especialy if they are bloodied this turn. [/sblock]

level 4
[sblock]Strength of Blood- OK, so this power give you the cool str of a vampire, only one problem, to get best results it cost a healing surge. I wonder if WotC realized that at 4th level you had 2 surges, and 2 encounter powers that cost surges, and only 1 encounter power to reclaim one. [/sblock]

level 6
[sblock]Form of the Bat- Fly speed 8 makes for a quick get away, or OK scouting, but becareful you have no combat abilities in this form. [/sblock]

level 10
[sblock]Gaseous Form- This is a daily Utlity power, and it gives you phaseing and Insub. It can get you out of a jam or into one if you are not carefull. [/sblock]

level 16
[sblock]Shared Blood- This one seams odd to me. again costing a surge, but this one is well worth it, giving temps equal to someones bloodied value is nothing to sneeze at. [/sblock]

level 22
[sblock]wow, 2 choices again...finaly
smiley-tongue-out.gif
. This one is tough, they both feel strikery to me, and add to the DPR. They both give encounters that grant an extra attack.

Blood Drinker's Pounce- It lets you move and get a another slam in (Your can opener) so I will give it the lead here. This one requares you drop a target or bloodie it with your encounter blood driker.

Culling Call- This one brings the enemy to you and grants combat advantage thanks to a free Dark Beakoning when you drop a foe. This one you need to drop a target but with anything. There is a school of thought that you are more likly to be out of encounters when you drop a foe. [/sblock]

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Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

Ok, so beyond the class are feats, Paragon paths, Epic Destiny, and Skill/race Utilities powers.

Themes
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Just as race and class create basic definitions regarding your character’s place in the world, theme adds a third component to help refine your story and identity.

Alchemist DM399- The Alchemist works best on Leaders, and anyone who wants utility. It is not bad, but don't expect anything great here.

Animal Master DM399- Ask your DM if you can buy a puppy...there is nothing for you here.

Bregan D’aerthe spy (Drow) NCG- Levitate is not that nice, and not granting +2 to hit with CA only sounds good until you run into the skimisher with +XdY with CA.
Chevalier DM399- Buy a horse and be done with it. there is nothing to see here.

Dead Rat Deserter (Human, Half elf, Hafling) NCG- 3 good races, and a nice theme fit, the extra mobility could come in handy, and the hybrid form at 10 only suffers from lack of a striker feature (not a vampire attack)

Devil’s pawn NCG- Maybe with some multi into Warlock, or if you were going teifling...no it would still suck for you.

Explorerer DM398- good mobility, and a bonus to fort and endurance (shoreing up weakness) Not great, but you can work with it.

Fatedancers DM401- OK, I don't use the cards...this theme does so I am unsure.

Gloomwrought emissary DM400-

Guardian DM399- If you are getting the defender thing is going, then maybe, but I have a special place in my heart for swaping out for the defender to then get his mark punishment

Guttersnipe DM399- yea, weapon attacks are blah, and over all it doesn't really help you.

Harper Agent NCG- I think this one is atleast blue for everyone.

Heir of Delzoun (Dwarf) NCG- You don't want to be a dwarf to begin with, and this adds nothing worth changing that thought.

Hospitaler DM399- If you ever think the vampire is a good leader you are wrong. but if you are suplment a healer it might take some worth.

Iliyanbruen guardian (Eladrin) NCG- Eladrin are not that good to begining with, and nothing here really helps.

Mercenary DM399- extra damage and prone atlest once per encounter. The extra powers are not that much though.

Neverwinter Noble (Human) NCG- Minor leader boost, and a thematic fit, human is not that bad, but I belive Noble below is better.

Noble DM399- Minor leader boost, and a free item.

Oghma's faithful NCG-

Order adept DM399- You have no arcane powers, and you are not a controler, so forget it.

Ordained priest DM399- Not much here.

Outlaw DM399- Not bad, Daze is a good and once per enconter you can add it to any at will.

Pack outcast (Human, shifter) NCG- Unlike the dread rat, this one is basic attacks and a wolf is nto as stealthy as a rat...all in all not worth it.

Scholar DM399-

Scion of Shadow (Human, Shadar Kai, Shade) NCG-

Seeker of Illefarn DM402-

Seer DM399-

Son of Alagondar DM402-

SPellscarred harbringer NCG-

Student of Evard DM400- This is nice, just skip the utlities and take some extra d12's for damage as an encounter.

Uthgardt barbarian (human) NCG-

Wizard's Apprentice DM399- This theme lets you go invisable, fly, take on small creature forms and get there movement, um the only power not screaming vampire is the Orb, and who doesn't love daze. Oh and lets not forget a free item.


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Paragon Paths
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Adroit Explorer (Human) PHB2- If I am reading this right, it gives you the same extra encounter, and gives you some suprise boost. This is a very good, infact I almost feel too good for a vampire.

Ancestral Incarnate (Deva) PHB2- If you went Deva it can be made to work, but it is already some work to make it here...so look to Dark Star instead.

Avenging Haunt (Reverant) D376- The reverant just gets better. Is there any class this is not good for?

Bloodfury Savage (half orc) PHB2-Skip it, You are not a weapon user, and like the half orc race, this is much better for a martial character.
Chameleon (changeling) EPG- If you are a Changeling then this is a good choice, it gets better the better paths everyone else has. Infact if you are playing with an above avrage group of optimizers (then why are you doing vampire) this could make it to Sky Blue with some work.

Dark Star (Deva) D393- This one is good powers, and lets be honnest useing memeory of a thousand is already good, enhancing it and letting you use it after an action point makes it great.

Fey Beguiler (Gnome) PHB2- Yea, skip it...man I really am looking for an excuse for a gnome vampire...

Rrathmal
(Githzeri) PHB2- It is a good choice, if you didn't have to be gith it would be better.

Turathi Highborn (Teifling) PHB2- This is a suprise hit. It doubles your striker damage (Turathi Frenzy (11th level): You gain a bonus to damage rolls against bloodied enemies equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.) and has good domination and damage powers...

Vampire Noble (Vampire) HoS- Suprise suprise the PP built for the class is a good one. It gives an extra use of your best encounter power, and has some nice synergy. It does have two choices though. Stalker is more focus on your striker and does more damge, infact at 20th level the daily gives you a 3d8 basic attack to replace the 1d10/2d10 you have. SO I rate it a little higher of the two. Beguiler on the other hand gives you more Stealth and Bluff, and with combat advantage it does MORE damage, Changlings or going for more control it is worth it. Eaither way the daylight bonus is NICE.


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Epic Destiny
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Dark Lord DM372- If you want to go strahd on some one, this one is good. How ever there are better. No stat ups hurt this...if you could get eather Dex or Cha out of this it would be Blue.

Deadly Trickster PHB1- This is good, but lacking encounter attack rolls make one of the features not as well as it could be. Rerolls are always good, holding your dailys on good rolls are good, useing the minor action to recharge all your encounters to steal more surges...it can be worked with.

Demi God PHB1- Not as good as it is for other classes, but still just short of SKY BLUE, your Regen is already good, so you don't need it from your ED.

Destined Scion HoFK- Ok it is offencive, bonus to hit, and the ability to turn a miss into a hit. It is Good for any striker.

Heir to the Empire (Teifling) PHB T- You get Cha but not Dex here, It has some good control and dominate like mechanics that fit well here.

Indomitable Champion HoFL- Extra Hit points, Extra def, and 2 stats of your choice (Dex and Cha please) What is not to like,

Punisher of the Gods DMA- OK, we all know it...I have to list it, but just look for yourself.

Ravon Knight DM380- You boost your Dex, and get some good powers, but nothing to write home about. Dark Scythe is almost good enough to make this a BLUE.

Soul of the World (Deva) DM385- Can I just say the longer I work on this the better Deva looks. It is worth it for race encounter powers even without helpful stat ups. It also give some great multi class picks for powers.

Thief of Legend DM388- If you are going stealth and Thievery this is perfect, it has a flair and boosts your two prime stats.

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non class Utilities
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Acrobitic skill powers
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Acrobatics Utility 2 Agile Recovery- prone sucks, but one of your at wills is a basic, so just charge, and use the free action encounter anyway...if you really want this there are magic boots to look into.

Acrobatics Utility 6 Tumbling Dodge- Ok, immediate damage reduction and with a good dex, you most likly have a great roll.

Acrobatics Utility 6 Dodge Step- this is really good for a ranged attacker... ranger or warlock or sorcerer could all use it, but you really do your best work in melee, so it is not that great.

Acrobatics Utility 6 Graceful Maneuver- An encounter shift of 3 or 4 is ok for most strikers, but there are better options

Acrobatics Utility 6 Perfect Balance- The number of times this will be useful and your spider climb cant make up the diffrence is so small it might as well be 0.

Acrobatics Utility 10 Drop and Roll- an atwill that triggers when you fall and take no damage...is this ever a good idea?

Acrobatics Utility 10 Rapid Escape- Minor action to excape and get combat advantage. Not bad, but not great. I can't imagin giving up myst form for this.

Acrobatics Utility 16 Reflexive Dodge- Like tumbling dodge this negates damage on what should be a good check for you. It also gives you a shift.

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Bluff
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Bluff Utility 2 Serpent's Tongue- it is ok if you use alot of bluff I guess.

Bluff Utility 2 Battle Feint- It is good, but if granting combat advantage is what you are looking for...well go look at the class choices.

Bluff Utility 2 False Bravado- at will ditch a mark, the more soldiers you fase the closer to GOLD this gets.

Bluff Utility 6 Fast Talk, Not bad, and can get some good use in skill challanges, but inless you are a changling it is a take it or leave it.

Bluff Utility 6 Confusing Blather- This power is only good if you plan on running away alot.

Bluff Utility 6 Dirty Tricks-Ok, if you want this, take confusing blather, it is better.

Bluff Utility 6 Faulty Memory- As an old VtM player I want to make this work. How ever it is not really that good.

Bluff Utility 10 Improvisational Arcana-I said eariler to leave the rituels to others, and I really feel that. This is a good power, just not for you.

Bluff Utility 10 Stall Tactics - until you see it, you will not belive how good it is. get the whole party to go before a solo even gets his first turn.

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Diplomacy
[sblock] Ok this set of powers are all leader powers...mostly skipable.
Diplomacy Utility 2 Master Diplomat DM389-

Diplomacy Utility 2 Soothing Words PHB3-

Diplomacy Utility 6 Haggle PHB3-

Diplomacy Utility 6 Stirring Speech PHB3-

Diplomacy Utility 10 Noble Sacrifice phb3-

Diplomacy Utility 10 Befriend phb3-

Diplomacy Utility 10 Cry for Mercy phb3-

Diplomacy Utility 16 Indomitable Ally PHB3-


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Intimadate
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Intimidate Utility 2 Ominous Threat phb3- I have heard it said vampire plays more like a defender, if that is your goal, or if you just want to pick up for a slacking defender this could work.

Intimidate Utility 6 Demoralize Foe PHB3- This one works well when you bite off more than you can chew
smiley-tongue-out.gif


Intimidate Utility 6 Try the Stick PHB3- Intimidate is better for you then diplomacy, so this could get you somewhere, but not really a strong option.

Intimidate Utility 6 Everybody Move phb3- If you need more control, this is the power for you…in fact it is most likely the best skill power available for this skill.

Intimidate Utility 10 Snap Out of It PHB3- I like to call this one the gibbs slap, but let the leader or defender pick it up ,unless for some reason you are trying to be secondary leader.

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Stealth
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Stealth Utility 2 Obscured Avoidance PHB3- Ditching marks are good, vbut without a way to generate concealment this is lack luster at best.

Stealth Utility 6 Concealed Shift
phb3- Goblin tactics is pure win, but again you need concealment, so unless you are planning on using warlock or shade…

Stealth Utility 6Shrouding Gloom PHB3- Minor action hide is great, but without a way to generate
concealment…

Stealth Utility 10 Crowd Cover PHB3- Not bad, I really like the concept, but too situational for its own good.

Stealth Utility 10 Persistent Tail PHB3- In the right situation it is golden, but that situation wont come up in every campaign let alone regularly in it.

Stealth Utility 16 Deepening Gloom- yea that cover and concealment thing got in the way of my melee striker.


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Thivery
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Thievery Utility 2 Fast Hands PHB3- Since you don’t use weapons this is less useful then you would think.

Thievery Utility 2 Lock Tap PHB3- This is game dependent, so I am not giving it a lot of credit.

Thievery Utility 2 Quick Palm PHB3- You don’t need your minor so much, so this can work, but again not great unless you are facing lots of equipped monsters.

Thievery Utility 6 Hasty Retreat- This is really good if you are disarming a lot of traps, but if not then well…

Thievery Utility 6 Stolen Defense PHB3- not bad but you have better ways to grant CA.

Thievery Utility 6 Quick Switch PHB3- As a melee striker you can get some use out of this.

Thievery Utility 10 Disruptive Stunt PHB3- This one can be fluffed to the mist form that give you a good shift, and is every encounter, we may have a winner here.

[/sblock]

[/sblock]

non multi class feats
[sblock] Unarmored Agility- Even the Devs call this a mandatory feat. You wont have the stats for armor, or the want of a shield...so this is your AC feat.

Expertise- Take one of them, no matter what by 11th level (I suggest by 6th)Ki Focus/Holy Symbol The extra damage from ki focus is very nice.*(when we talk multi class and weapon attacks the ki focus is really the only option)

Durable- This one is contested, some people belive it is needed to keep up, others feel it is a waste. take a look through the thread and decied for your self.

Implment Focus- free damage on all of your hits, I suggest you take it early, but if by 11th you don't have it there is almost no excuse...you need the damage.

Radiant Power
(Deva)- The same reason fighters take power attack can be said here, but it is deva only.

Superior Reflexes/Will/
Fortitude -
Ref and will should both be able to be gotten here in heroic, on the other hand your fort is already low...embrace the weakness and except it. If you build to have the Con/Str at level 21 to meet the prereq you wasted resources. I suggest Ref quickly but will at the end of the heroic levels (when dom and stun become more of an issue.).

Vampiric Heritage- Don't do it...low damage and most of the other powers it ioens up are just ike choices you already have... and worse yet you if doing it well never want to spend a healing surge to heal. [/sblock]

multi class feats
[sblock] If we assume your boosting dex and cha then those are the classes I will look into multi class. I am looking for the base feat and an encounter better then ferral assualt. IF by 10th you can get a daily to replace the swarm forms all the better.

This could also lead to paragon paths and epic destinies.

Dex Based
[sblock]

Rogue- (low slash was Suggested to me)
Monk-
Assassin-

[/sblock]
Cha Based
[sblock] Sorcerer

Warlock

Bard

Paliden

Cleric

Warlord- taking Inspireing leader means a 13 str and cha, but opens up effect powers like Vengence is Mine (free off turn basic attack, and an ally gets a move and basic).

[/sblock]


[/sblock]

Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

Example builds.

Purple People Eater: She is an accurate striker that can pile on the damage. I wont be putting her for highest DPR any time soon, but she holds her own on avrage. If you put her with a leader giving basic attacks (her slam) it could get even better.

I stacked her resstances and gave her a feat to throw radiant at will. She looks alot like a slayer with a d10 brutal 2 weapon and power attack, except she has dailys on top of that.

purple people eater
[sblock] I would not have guessed this would be my go to build.

Level 5
[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Suprise, level 5
Deva, Vampire
Deva - Brink of Corruption (+2 to Stealth)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 11, DEX 19, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 17

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14


AC: 22 Fort: 14 Ref: 17 Will: 17
HP: 43 Surges: 2 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Religion +9, Stealth +13, Thievery +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Athletics +1, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +2, Heal +3, History +4, Insight +3, Intimidate +5, Nature +3, Perception +3, Streetwise +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Vampire Attack 1: Swarm of Shadows
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
Vampire Utility 2: Charming Gaze
Vampire Attack 3: Feral Assault
Vampire Utility 4: Strength of Blood
Vampire Attack 5: Unfettered Hunger

FEATS
Level 1: Radiant Power
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Unarmored Agility

ITEMS
Devastating Ki Focus +1 x1
Magic Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Lucky Charm +1 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
====== End ====== [/sblock]

Ok, so at level 5 she is looking at Vampire slam at +8 Vs Ref, 1d10+12 (can take -2 to hit to get +2 radiant damage)
Her other at will attacks are +8 vs fort 1d8+10 gain and 5 temps, and +9 vs will 1d6+9 and pull 3
Mem of a thousand lets her add 1d6 to a d20 skill or attack roll once per encounter, and the Devastating Ki Focus lets her count all 1's and 2's as 3's for damage rolls.

Add +1 to damage on all when target is bloodied and +1 to her def against bloodied enemies.

Lucky charm gives her a daily just like mem of a thousand

she ressit radiant and necro 7, countering her vunrability already.

When bloodied regen 3

dpr
[sblock]Red Dragon Wyrmling Level 5 Elite Soldier

HP 134; Bloodied 67
AC 23;
Fortitude 21, Reflex 18, Will 17

Vampire slam at +8 Vs Ref, 1d10+12 need a 10, avrage damage is 17.8 crit 22+1d8 DPR 10.333
Tast of Life +8 vs fort 1d8+10 need 11 avg dam is 14.875 crit 18+1d8 DPR 7.833
Dark beckinig +9 vs will 1d6+9 need an 8 avg damage 13 crit 15+1d8 DPR 8.793

[/sblock]


Level 15
[sblock] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Suprise - Copy, level 15
Deva, Vampire, Dark Star
Deva - Brink of Corruption (+2 to Stealth)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 12, DEX 22, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14


AC: 32 Fort: 25 Ref: 29 Will: 29
HP: 94 Surges: 3 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +18, Religion +14, Stealth +20, Thievery +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +6, Bluff +12, Diplomacy +12, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +8, Heal +8, History +9, Insight +8, Intimidate +12, Nature +8, Perception +8, Streetwise +12

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
Vampire Utility 2: Charming Gaze
Vampire Attack 3: Feral Assault
Vampire Utility 4: Strength of Blood
Vampire Attack 5: Unfettered Hunger
Vampire Utility 6: Form of the Bat
Vampire Attack 9: Domineering Gaze
Vampire Utility 10: Gaseous Form
Thievery Utility 10: Disruptive Stunt
Dark Star Attack 11: Excruciating Transposition
Dark Star Utility 12: Tangled Fate
Vampire Attack 15: Hungry Swarm

FEATS
Level 1: Radiant Power
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Superior Reflexes
Level 8: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 10: Auspicious Lineage
Level 11: Superior Will
Level 12: Great Fortitude
Level 14: Skill Power

ITEMS
Lucky Charm +3 x1
Magic Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +4 x1
Devastating Ki Focus +3 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (paragon tier) x1
Belt of Lucky Strikes (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======[/sblock]
Ok, so at level 15 she is looking at Vampire slam at +18 Vs Ref, 1d10+24 (can take -2 to hit to get +4 radiant damage)
Her other at will attacks are +18 vs fort 1d8+20 gain and 7 temps, and +19 vs will 1d6+19 and pull 3
Mem of a thousand lets her add 1d8 to a d20 skill or attack roll once per encounter, and if whe hits with it she makes the target grant combat advantage and take a -2 to hit until the end of there next turn.
the Devastating Ki Focus lets her count all 1's and 2's as 3's for damage rolls.
Belt of Lucky lets her make a melee basic (slam) when soemone misses her once per day

Add +2 to damage on all when target is bloodied and +1 to her def against bloodied enemies.

Lucky charm gives her a daily just like mem of a thousand but now roll 2d6 and take the higher

she ressit radiant and necro 12.

When bloodied regen 5

Dark star gives her an intrupt attack that if it hits will means she takes half damage, and so does the attacker (half of there own that is)

Level 25
[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Suprise - Copy (1), level 25
Deva, Vampire, Dark Star, Soul of the World
Knowledge of Ancient Lives Option: Knowledge of Ancient Lives (Monk)
Past Spirit Option: Past Spirit (Dragonborn)
Past Spirit Option: Past Spirit (Elf)
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Dexterity
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid
Deva - Brink of Corruption (+2 to Stealth)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 25, INT 14, WIS 16, CHA 23

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 14


AC: 41 Fort: 33 Ref: 38 Will: 38
HP: 145 Surges: 3 Surge Value: 36

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +24, Religion +21, Stealth +26, Thievery +24

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +14, Athletics +12, Bluff +18, Diplomacy +18, Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +13, Heal +15, History +16, Insight +15, Intimidate +18, Nature +15, Perception +15, Streetwise +18

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon Breath
Elf Racial Power: Elven Accuracy
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
Vampire Utility 2: Charming Gaze
Vampire Utility 4: Strength of Blood
Vampire Attack 5: Unfettered Hunger
Vampire Utility 6: Form of the Bat
Vampire Utility 10: Gaseous Form
Thievery Utility 10: Disruptive Stunt
Dark Star Attack 11: Excruciating Transposition
Dark Star Utility 12: Tangled Fate
Vampire Attack 15: Hungry Swarm
Vampire Utility 16: Shared Blood
Vampire Attack 17: Unleashed Fury
Dark Star Attack 20: Soul Scourge
Vampire Attack 25: Irresistible Gaze

FEATS
Level 1: Radiant Power
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Superior Reflexes
Level 8: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 10: Auspicious Lineage
Level 11: Superior Will
Level 12: Great Fortitude
Level 14: Skill Power
Level 16: Cold Adaptation
Level 18: Resilient Focus
Level 20: Heat Adaptation
Level 21: Transcendent Lineage
Level 22: Draconic Triumph
Level 24: Ascendant Lineage

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Devastating Ki Focus +5 x1
Magic Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6 x1
Lucky Charm +5 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (epic tier) x1
Hero's Gauntlets (paragon tier) x1
Belt of Lucky Strikes (heroic tier) x1
Psychic's Ring (paragon tier) x1
====== End ====== [/sblock]

Ok, so at level 25 she is looking at Vampire slam at +27 Vs Ref, 2d10+33 (can take -2 to hit to get +6 radiant damage)
Her other at will attacks are +27 vs fort 2d8+27 gain and 8 temps, and +28 vs will 2d6+26 and pull 3
Mem of a thousand lets her add 1d8 (roll 2d8 take the better, if you still fail recharge the power) to a d20 skill or attack roll once per encounter, and if whe hits with it she makes the target grant combat advantage and take a -2 to hit until the end of there next turn.
She now counts as an elf, a dragon born (gaining breath weap and accuracy), and a monk. (thank you epic destiny) SO she can trade out her Unleashed Fury or Irresistible Gaze for monk attacks if she wants.

the Devastating Ki Focus lets her count all 1's and 2's as 3's for damage rolls.
Belt of Lucky lets her make a melee basic (slam) when soemone misses her once per day

Add +3 to damage on all when target is bloodied and +1 to her def against bloodied enemies.

Lucky charm gives her a daily just like mem of a thousand but now roll 3d6 and take the higher

she ressit radiant and necro 17, and fire and cold 15. I choose those feats becuse at this level you can expect alot of multi damage types.

When bloodied regen 6
Dark star gives her an intrupt attack that if it hits will means she takes half damage, and so does the attacker (half of there own that is)
The daily from darkstar is ok for what it does, but it's effect is add 4 radiant and necrotic damage to all attacks until end of encounter.

[/sblock]

standard vamp, for those looking to play a more normal vamp charachter....
standard vamp
[sblock] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Standard, level 15
Vryloka, Vampire, Vampire Noble
Bloodline: Stalker Bloodline
Occupation - Criminal (+2 to Thievery)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 22, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 16


AC: 30 Fort: 24 Ref: 30 Will: 29
HP: 106 Surges: 3 Surge Value: 26

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +18, Bluff +18, Intimidate +20, Stealth +20, Thievery +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Athletics +7, Diplomacy +13, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +9, Heal +6, History +8, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +8, Religion +8, Streetwise +13

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Vryloka Utility: Lifeblood
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
Vampire Utility 2: Hunter's Gaze
Rogue Attack 3: Low Slash
Vampire Utility 4: Strength of Blood
Vampire Attack 5: Unfettered Hunger
Vampire Utility 6: Form of the Bat
Vampire Attack 9: Domineering Gaze
Vampire Utility 10: Gaseous Form
Vampire Noble Utility 12: Hunter's Frenzy
Rogue Attack 15: Slaying Strike

FEATS
Level 1: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 2: Sneak of Shadows
Level 4: Novice Power
Level 6: Unarmored Agility
Level 8: Superior Reflexes
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Devastating Critical
Level 12: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 14: Toughness

ITEMS
Dagger x1
Bloodthread Githweave Armor +3 x1
Forked Lightning Ki Focus +3 x1
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (paragon tier) x1
Strikebacks (heroic tier) x1
Map of Unseen Lands (heroic tier)
====== End ====== [/sblock]
 

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MonkLover

First Post
Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Seriously, dude, what are you going to do? Talk about the two power picks, or that one should listen to the Devs when they said take Unarmored Agility?


Originally posted by vanadium322:

I know spelling and grammar are not normally a priority for many people, but in a handbook-type post you might wanna make it look good.
Con- by loseing your Con mod to surges you loose any reason to put any points here…I would suggest a 10-12 here

That should be "losing" and "lose".


Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

I know spelling and grammar are not normally a priority for many people, but in a handbook-type post you might wanna make it look good.
Con- by loseing your Con mod to surges you loose any reason to put any points here…I would suggest a 10-12 here

That should be "losing" and "lose".

Thank you...

I normaly leave this sorta thing to others becuse my spelling and gramer suck, and I am at best a mid level optimizer...but I am trying here.     


Originally posted by The_Crimson_Dawn:

Also why not an 8 in con.  Get auspicious birth or the like and con does nearly nothing for you.


Originally posted by The_Warren:

I'm actually happy that vampires are getting a real handbook.  i imagine it will be more of just ratings based on the best feats, multiclass options, hybrid options, and items, but I'm sure there is at least some synergy somewhere.


Originally posted by RuinsFate:

Your chosen shades of green and gold are very bright, and hard to read, I'd recommend changing them to something darker.


Originally posted by curiousdragon:

Your chosen shades of green and gold are very bright, and hard to read, I'd recommend changing them to something darker.

Yes agreed with that.

I'm also looking forward to this...mostly for feats/PPs/EDs. Powers aren't everything! 


Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

Your chosen shades of green and gold are very bright, and hard to read, I'd recommend changing them to something darker.

Yes agreed with that.

I'm also looking forward to this...mostly for feats/PPs/EDs. Powers aren't everything! 

I changed them...

I tried to get races up, and stats. I lmost just to be funny made all the powers gold...but decided that there were enough vampire jokes.   



Originally posted by Damon_Tor:

Gold: A rare rating given to specify that if you make another choice, you are probably doing something wrong (mandatory, without rank)
Vryloka- This race was made for this class…nuff said

Wut.


Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

Gold: A rare rating given to specify that if you make another choice, you are probably doing something wrong (mandatory, without rank)
Vryloka- This race was made for this class…nuff said

Wut.

ok, do you dissagree with the rateing or me not writeing out why the rateing is there?


Originally posted by Lesp:

Those two things in concert imply that playing a Vryloka is mandatory if you're trying to put together a generally optimized vampire, which is just untrue. Handbooks essentially never make races gold, because there's no race that's so utterly superior at any particular class that you'd be foolish to not take the race. Gold is generally reserved for feats (or rarely, skills) that either are necessary to make the class work or to make the math keep up and for powers that are so thoroghly dominating at their level that passing them up is a siginificant hit to overall character effectiveness. (Twin Strike, for example). While individual handbook writers are free to use Gold to mean whatever they like, if you're going to use the boilerplate "this is what gold means" definition right in your handbook, Vryloka are not Gold at all. (On top of the oddness of using Gold for a race to begin with, Vryloka, with their relative dearth of support, probably aren't even the best option.)


Originally posted by Fardiz:

Is a shade vampire really sky blue? With only one surge, you better hope that you never run into wights...


Originally posted by FLAvatar:

Well, the vast majority of wights just make you lose a healing surge with no provisions for additional penalties if you have none left.  It could be argued that shade vampires are among the classes with the least to lose by fighting wights
smiley-wink.gif



Originally posted by Mand12:

I really don't get why people are so hung up about the starting surges or lack thereof.  It's really not a big deal.  I mean, how many surges are you really going to need in any given encounter anyway?  Two, at most, unless your entire party is doing something very wrong.  And given surge generation abilities...yeah.  Even a one-surge Shade isn't exactly going to be easy to pick off.

I mean, compare it to a rogue.  A typical rogue has 6 surges, with the occasional exception having 7.  A vampire has 2, but at level 7 he's gaining two per encounter (unless you don't record two hits in an encounter, which means you've got bigger problems...).  Even on a short adventuring workday of 2 encounters it's even with a rogue.  At typical load levels (4) the vampire is way ahead, even if he's a Shade.

Now, this doesn't do much to make the Vampire not completely terrible, as durable-but-completely-nonthreatening is the precise way to get monsters to ignore you and murder your friends, but I do think it's worth being accurate in describing what few advantages a vampire has.

That said, the best Vampire is a normal class with the Vampirism and PowerSource Vampire feats, which is just downright sad.


Originally posted by The_Warren:

Skill challenges that makes the pc lose surges could potentially drop a shade vampire with some bad rolls (assuming that after the pc loses it's surge it is now losing 1/4 life for each additonal failure).

Also, having more than one surge for a vampire is a great thing, because of powers like feral assault that let you nova if you expend a surge.  Especially if for a 1st round mini nova the vampire uses vampire slam + blood drinker, action points to use feral assault and expends a surge to do 2d8 extra to take a monster below bloodied.  Hurray.  Now team monster focus fires on the vampire who gets dropped, healed by the leader, and is now hiding in the corner for the rest of the encounter until he can regen to a point where a hit from a brute wouldn't drop him again.  Boo.


Originally posted by estlor:

Well, the vast majority of wights just make you lose a healing surge with no provisions for additional penalties if you have none left.

That's because the 4e rules handle that.

PC who loses a healing surge with none left = take bloodied value in damage.  Or, in other words, "Ouch!"



Originally posted by Mand12:

Takes healing surge value in damage, not bloodied value.


Originally posted by kilpatds:

Well, the vast majority of wights just make you lose a healing surge with no provisions for additional penalties if you have none left.
That's because the 4e rules handle that.
Cite?  I've been looking for it, but unable to find it.  All I can find are specific situations that specify the result you just mentioned.


Originally posted by talavar:

Skill challenges that makes the pc lose surges could potentially drop a shade vampire with some bad rolls (assuming that after the pc loses it's surge it is now losing 1/4 life for each additonal failure).

Also, having more than one surge for a vampire is a great thing, because of powers like feral assault that let you nova if you expend a surge.  Especially if for a 1st round mini nova the vampire uses vampire slam + blood drinker, action points to use feral assault and expends a surge to do 2d8 extra to take a monster below bloodied.  Hurray.  Now team monster focus fires on the vampire who gets dropped, healed by the leader, and is now hiding in the corner for the rest of the encounter until he can regen to a point where a hit from a brute wouldn't drop him again.  Boo.

Or you could play a revenant vampire and laugh as you stay standing up at 0 HP, roll vs daze thanks to superior will and keep fighting. Vampires aren't very feat strapped making this one of the best options IMO.


Originally posted by ShadowWhispers:

I am disappointed that this handbook is called "I Just Don't Want to Suck" rather than "I Don't Just Want to Suck."

A perfectly good pun opportunity missed! 


Originally posted by mellored:

 Vryloka shouldn't be gold.  Yes, it's +Dex/Cha, but I don't see anything that really put's it over the other Dex/Cha races, execpt perhaps living dead, but that seems party/campaign specific.

If anything is gold, it's revenant.  They have the stats, can be neigh-indestuctable (though be wary of the "sun-light turn to dust" thing), and take other race feats.


Originally posted by FLAvatar:

Well, the vast majority of wights just make you lose a healing surge with no provisions for additional penalties if you have none left.

That's because the 4e rules handle that.

PC who loses a healing surge with none left = take bloodied value in damage.  Or, in other words, "Ouch!"
that was the joke actually =)

quoted very loosely from a previous thread(x):

Though it is frequently purported to exist, there is no default rule on what happens if you get a surge drained when you have none left.  It's left up to the individual draining power/event to define the result.

It varies between nothing at all, lose a surge's worth of HP, lose your level in HP, lose your bloodied value in HP, or lose some other amount of HP (a lacedon, for instance, will cost you 10)



Originally posted by GMforPowergamers:

When I looked at all the races looked like it was a no brainer that  Vryloka had some utlities better then vamp, and had the perfect stats (so do others) and an encounter power that is useful. I will tone that down to sky blue, and maybe down grade the shade, but in SHade I see that loseing a surge not to matter as much.


Originally posted by The_Warren:

Or you could play a revenant vampire and laugh as you stay standing up at 0 HP, roll vs daze thanks to superior will and keep fighting. Vampires aren't very feat strapped making this one of the best options IMO.

My post was in regards to shade vampires and only having 1 surge.  Revenants are always the best survival characters.



Originally posted by VilliansVision:

Please continue with this handbook, I am pleased to see someone taking a serious look at the Vampire. Some folks may have a desire to play one, or be in a campaign that a vampire would work really well with . Having a handbook would be handy for those folks. 

 
Originally posted by Litigation:

Yeah, sorry, Shades are flat-out red. For everything. Even double-stat synergy for a class doesn't stop them from being red for said class.


Originally posted by Mand12:

That's a bit of an exaggeration.  Vampires I'd say they're at least purple, if not black.  The upsides aren't spectacular aside from the stats, but the downsides are nowhere near as bad on a Vampire.


Originally posted by talavar:

Or you could play a revenant vampire and laugh as you stay standing up at 0 HP, roll vs daze thanks to superior will and keep fighting. Vampires aren't very feat strapped making this one of the best options IMO.

My post was in regards to shade vampires and only having 1 surge.  Revenants are always the best survival characters.

Just pointing out that even with all the feats/equipment required to make a vamp unkillable it doesn't really take anything away from them.

If you can't make a striker burst down elites you may as well make it impossible to kill.               


Originally posted by Litigation:

That's a bit of an exaggeration.  Vampires I'd say they're at least purple, if not black.  The upsides aren't spectacular aside from the stats, but the downsides are nowhere near as bad on a Vampire.

One surge. Per day. No, that's bad any way you slice it. Then add the ridiculous Stealth training and the worst racial utility power ever made. Shade Vampires suck worse than even most others.

Other race notes:

Eladrin should be at least blue. If you're going to slate the Eladrin for wasted racial features then you definitely have to do the same for the Shade, which is just a worse race. Plus the Neverwinter book offers alternates for the "wasted" Eladrin features. Besides, Fey Step ALONE > the entire Shade package.

Half-Orc black? lolwut? DEX bonus on top of awesome racial Striker support, every bit of which you'll need to redeem this class? Half-Orc should be sky blue, period.

Githzerai is easily dark blue, if not better. That's too strong of a racial package there.


Originally posted by mellored:

Shades....

They loose half a feat.  Durable is rated purple in most handbooks.  It's a loss, but a small one.
Training in stealth is good.  Replaces the half of a purple feat that was lost and a little more.  Call it equal to resist radiant 5/10/15.
Darkvision: WOO!.  Now we've got solid features.  Total it up to average.
Now we need an racial power...   mmm...  THIS is where it fails.

So basicly it's a race without a racial power.  Still, it has the stats for vampire, so black.


Originally posted by Litigation:

Shades....

They loose half a feat.  Durable is rated purple in most handbooks.  It's a loss, but a small one.

Uh, no. A penalty to surges below base is NOT the same as deciding not to take Durable. Not. Even. Close. To claim so is completely disingenuous.

Training in stealth is good.  Replaces the half of a purple feat that was lost and a little more.  Call it equal to resist radiant 5/10/15.

What? When is Stealth training EVER equivalent to damage resistance?

Darkvision: WOO!.  Now we've got solid features.  Total it up to average.

Darkvision is a neat bonus. Nothing more.

So basicly it's a race without a racial power.  Still, it has the stats for vampire, so black.

I disagree. The Shade's disadvantages are so severe that nothing, not even double-stat synergy, prevents it from being the bottom of the barrel. There's a reason it's rated red in all my guides, even for the classes for which it has appropriate stats.


Originally posted by Mand12:

That's a bit of an exaggeration.  Vampires I'd say they're at least purple, if not black.  The upsides aren't spectacular aside from the stats, but the downsides are nowhere near as bad on a Vampire.

One surge. Per day. No, that's bad any way you slice it.

Which is why you add some nice condiments of "+1/2/3 healing surges per encounter" and make a wonderful meal out of it.

Seriously, your assessment of how crippled a 1-surge-per-day character would be is based on a non-surge-generating character.  Vampires work differently.  1 surge is not all that much worse than 2 surges, since neither of those surges may end up actually being used based on how the vampire works.

It'd be tough before level 7, when you only have +1 surge per encounter, but that's not enough to make the race red, especially when non-Shade vamps still have that problem even starting at 2 surges.

There's a reason it's rated red in all my guides, even for the classes for which it has appropriate stats.
This statement leads me to believe you're not even looking at it in the context of the Vampire, or at least not doing so objectively.


Originally posted by lord_rock:

Great job. This was actually supposed to be a project of mine awhile ago but never got the time. I'll add what I can. The Reverse multiclass options and hybrid options are likely still the best ways to optimize so please focus on those as they get further testing.

We'll also see a lot of dragon support for this class... Get ready for that.

I second Half-Orc as a sky blue race, eladrin too, and the shade is still Red.


Originally posted by mellored:

Well...  i guess it depends on how you define red...

Red: There is a strictly better option.
or
Red: The worst possible option.

Shades could be considered for the first one.  As there's is another Dex/Cha race with darkvision and a racial power that's let's you hide...

However, if you go by the second one, then shade's are better vampires then dwarves.
 

MonkLover

First Post
the following guide was more of a discussion.


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Vampire Handbook
I Don't Always Play Vampires
 
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

But when I do, I prefer Hybrid.
Stay thirsty, my friends.
Seriously, that's it. Vampire is a class mechanically incapable of being an optimized Striker, and in many cases barely capable of being a Striker at all. It really doesn't help that every single significant class feature is contained in the Hybrid Vampire. Heck, many of the relevant features are in the multiclass feat! So, if you want to play an optimized Vampire...  play something else, multiclass or Hybrid, and look up that class's handbook.

In other words, if your Vampire is an optimized Vampire... 

hybridvamp.png

...He's Got A Little Hybrid In Him.

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Warning!
ex_20110311.jpg

This handbook contains copious amounts of Iconic Vampire. Women with heart conditions are advised not to look directly at Iconic Vampire. This also applies to women without heart conditions. He's very pretty - see? See how pretty he is? He's very pretty! I'd like to run my fingers through his hair, and I'm just a voice! 

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Hello, gamers.
ex_20110311.jpg

Look at your striker, now back to me, now back at your striker, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped killing things with weapons and switched to Vampire, he could strike like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re on a boat with the striker your striker could strike like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an oyster with two items that do that thing you love. Look again, the items are now astral diamonds. Anything is possible when your man strikes like a Vampire and not a normal striker. I’m on a horse.

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

You ever notice how everything you say is creepier when you add "ladies" to the end?
Well, hello!  I'm the Vampire, the new striker from Heroes of Shadow!
ex_20110311.jpg


...Ladies.

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

He does less damage than an O-Sassin with no feats and a primary dump stat.

Small children cry when he shows up at their LFR tables.

He once dealt a creature its bloodied value in damage, then went back to playing his class.

He is...

9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

...the Iconic Vampire.

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On One-Shotting Encounters
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"I assure you: most women would not consider finishing in six seconds a virtue."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On the Two-Surge System
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"The hot Tiefling Fighter's is the one you want to spend."

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Life
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"It's never too early to start beefing up your obituary."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Party Roles
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"Find out what it is in the game that you do not do well, and then don't do that thing."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Daily Power Selection
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"The right look should suffice."
vampeyes.png



Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

That should be all, but one more for good luck.  Feel free to post.

Originally posted by mc-drowbane:

LMAO - I totally approve of this.

I'll delete this post if need be.  Carry on. 

Originally posted by LlamasNotsheep:

Best guide ever.  I'm impressed with how quickly you finished it.

You're not actually thinking of changing it, right?  Because it's perfect right now. 

Originally posted by mc-drowbane:

Best guide ever.  I'm impressed with how quickly you finished it.

You're not actually thinking of changing it, right?  Because it's perfect right now. 

Thread win. 


Originally posted by twisted9:

This is awesome. Looking forward to it.

Originally posted by Cyvaris:

Those first two posts are just awesome. You really need to archive them/keep them in. Both had me in tears, probably a bad thing when I am in class.

Really a great handbook, I think it covers all the aspects and complexities of the Vampire class.

Originally posted by Damon_Tor:

So are all the vampire powers Gold?  You literally have to take them, you don't get any more "must take" than that.

Not really sure why you needed to reserve so many spaces.

Racially, any race that doesn't have both Dex and Cha is red: a vampire needs both reasonably high in order to his with the powers that key off of cha (and it's not like be can choose not to take those powers)

a guide to vampires will consist of a discussion about races (ie, pick a dex/cha race, all others are traps) ability scores (ie, pick 18 dex, 14 cha, and 11 con, all others are traps) and the section on powers which will have exactly two entries, level 2 and level 22, with two powers each.

Can't poach powers in any meaningful way (and even if you do, your striker feature won't work with them) and you'll be at a loss for paragon paths for a similar reason.

The only section which will see anything like an actual guide will be on feats, which will be a standard mix of basic feat taxes (unarmored agility, improved defenses, expertise... is there a "focus" feat available?) specific vampire feat taxes (durable, maybe others)  The items section is likely to be interesting because it will include items wich cost healing surges to use.

Originally posted by sirrus21:

It...it's beautiful.  If the guide were nothing but Iconic Vampire, I would be ecstatic to read it for vampire-building advice.  

Though in seriousness, I would have to agree with Damon_Tor for the most part.  With fixed powers mostly negating power choice and the split attack stats (some powers rely on Dex, others on Cha) making any race that isn't Dex/Cha just not optimal, it's hard to pick the better choice...because there really isn't a choice.  Luckily there's a lot of races with Dex/Cha though.  Feats, items, and niche builds are pretty much everything here.

Though I do intend to use the Vampire class to build villains.  With some DM tweaking, they can be pretty brutal.

Originally posted by Armisael:

Hahahahaha, amazing! Agree with what others have said here. With the class being on rails as hard as it is, this should totally be a stylish guide. :p

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Dude. Wait until the class comes out. You might be surprised.

For example, I am already looking into ways to use this with Kulkor, as it gets a Vampire MBA.

Originally posted by Suzume_Stjohn:

Could also rate the powers on how useful they are for others to steal ;) Specially the HE using adept dil. to ghetto MC.  The dex based MBA will be big for some builds.  The only downside is that it's a implement attack, but eh, we'll see how it goes.  ;)

Originally posted by Aegeri:

I have never been more keen to read one of the handbooks of this board.

Originally posted by CrimsonAssassin:

This guide is dripping with win.

So I just now read someone saying that the Vampire'll have implement attacks based on CHA?  Hmmm...agreed that a DEX/CHA race will be optimal and I can go off some off the top of my head.

Halfling (lolsmallvampire)
Drow (sexy elf vampire)
Changeling (that shapeshifting effect could come up more often in a campaign if you're caught biting someone)
Goblin (eww...)


Originally posted by Caeric:

Ha. I approve of this guide.

But what is there to even say for the Vampire? Your class-based choices are limited to two utility levels. There's only one class paragon path. There's no class feats. Multiclassing for powers will negate your striker damage on those powers. You have to have high Dexterity and high Charisma to make sure all of your powers are useful, and that means that you don't have a lot of wiggle room for ability score spread (or race choice, since those boosts will matter quite a bit).

This is going to be one short guide.

Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

To be honest, that's why I'm comfortable writing it. I'm not that great at optimization outside of skills, so the only thing I feel I could do justice is something like this.

Also, doing the handbook lets me pick exactly how much Iconic Vampire will be in it. C'est-a-dire, a lot.

Originally posted by Bargle0:

This is going to be one short guide.

There is nothing short about Iconic Vampire.


Originally posted by Backlash3906:

Here's the numbers on those implement attacks. :)

Dexterity Attacks
1 Melee-1 vs Fort At-Will
1 Melee-1 vs Reflex At-Will
2 Close blast 3 vs Fortitude Daily
2 Melee-1 vs Reflex Encounter
1 Close burst 1 vs Reflex Daily
1 Close blast 5 vs Fortitude Daily

Charisma (+2) Attacks
1 Ranged 5 vs Will At-Will
1 Ranged 5 vs Will Daily
1 Close burst 2 vs Will Daily (Beguiler Paragon Path lv20 power)
And then a reasonably complicated level 20 attack for the Stalker PP.

All of these powers are numbered, and some run in sequences of direct replacements of one another.
Swarm of Shadows (Lv 1) >> Hungry Swarm (Lv 15) >> Consuming Swarm (Lv 29)
Domineering Gaze (Lv 9) >> Irresistible Gaze (Lv 25)

This leads me to believe that further powers for the class will also run in sequences. Similar to the Warpriest and Cavalier/Blackguard domain/virtue/vice sequences.

Originally posted by Undrhil:

Actually, the Races section of the Vampire class description talks about Halfling Vampires.  Personally, I'm thinking about making a Shade Vampire, just because that would be awesome. 
smile.gif


I wish the Vampire class had a MC feat for it, but since it's written Essentials-style, there is no MC feat. 
sad.gif
  I guess half-elves in LFR get the best of this since they can retrain their racial power pick and get a Vampire at-will and then take Adept Dilletante to be multiclassed into it.  Not sure if PMCing will be a viable option, but I guess a half-elf playing a CHA primary class could make off with the CHA+2 Vampire at-will and have it as an actual at-will power at paragon...

Originally posted by Aegeri:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?


Originally posted by Rokku:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

Healing surges are for fools.  Fools and liberals.


Originally posted by mellored:

Looks like a job for revenant (warforged). Might not be iconic, but minor action surgless heal will go a long way, and allow you to use your surges for damage instead of healing.

Originally posted by Undrhil:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

What's wrong with a Shade Vampire?  I happen to like the fact that I can use my allies as shiel- --- ... err, cover.  ;)  And then, after the combat, they let me heal.  It's a win-win. .... for me. 
smile.gif


Originally posted by raleel:

I've not laughed so hard at a thread on this board ever.

Originally posted by MalakLightfoot:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

My group has been dominating during this season of Encounters, so I was planning on making a Shade Vampire for next reason to up the challenge on myself a little more. 
smile.gif



Originally posted by Armisael:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

My group has been dominating during this season of Encounters, so I was planning on making a Shade Vampire for next reason to up the challenge on myself a little more. 
smile.gif

Make him attack with his eyes closed too. Better go hardcore to up the ante. :p


Originally posted by Zathris:

[SIZE=large] [/SIZE][SIZE=large] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=small][SIZE=large]OBEY[/SIZE][SIZE=large][SIZE=small][SIZE=large] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/size]



[SIZE=large][SIZE=large]
ex_20110311.jpg
[/SIZE][/size]

[SIZE=large][SIZE=large]MY THIRST [/SIZE][/size]​


Originally posted by Mand12:

HALFLING VAMPIRE

Bringing new meaning to the term "ankle biter" since 2011!


Originally posted by meleeeci:

I think you should put the "reserving for future disagreement" feat in light blue. It's useful for almost every race.

Originally posted by Caeric:

I think you should put the "reserving for future disagreement" feat in light blue. It's useful for almost every race.
Now hold on there! [Insert feat here] isn't that good for [insert race, class, paragon path, feat, or power here], and that's kind of a big deal. I wouldn't rate [insert feat here] higher than blue, especially if you aren't using [insert feat or power here].

[Insert completely different feat here] should definately be red, I think. No synergy at all.


Originally posted by XunValDorl_of_H...:

I was thinking about a Blood Red Shardmind Vampire, but since they don't need to eat or drink then I guess the dependency on blood is out.

Originally posted by Reg06:

HALFLING VAMPIRE


Bringing new meaning to the term "ankle biter" since 2011!


*cough* 2002 *cough*


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Warning!
ex_20110311.jpg

This handbook contains copious amounts of Iconic Vampire. Women with heart conditions are advised not to look directly at Iconic Vampire. This also applies to women without heart conditions. He's very pretty - see? See how pretty he is? He's very pretty! I'd like to run my fingers through his hair, and I'm just a voice! 


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Hello, gamers.
ex_20110311.jpg

Look at your striker, now back to me, now back at your striker, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped killing things with weapons and switched to Vampire, he could strike like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re on a boat with the striker your striker could strike like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an oyster with two items that do that thing you love. Look again, the items are now astral diamonds. Anything is possible when your man strikes like a Vampire and not a normal striker. I’m on a horse.


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

You ever notice how everything you say is creepier when you add "ladies" to the end?
Well, hello!  I'm the Vampire, the new striker from Heroes of Shadow!
ex_20110311.jpg


...Ladies.


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

He does less damage than an O-Sassin with no feats and a primary dump stat.

Small children cry when he shows up at their LFR tables.

He once dealt a creature its bloodied value in damage, then went back to playing his class.

He is...

9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

...the Iconic Vampire.


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On One-Shotting Encounters
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"I assure you: most women would not consider finishing in six seconds a virtue."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On the Two-Surge System
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"The hot Tiefling Fighter's is the one you want to spend."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Life
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"It's never too early to start beefing up your obituary."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Party Roles
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"Find out what it is in the game that you do not do well, and then don't do that thing."


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

The Iconic Vampire
On Daily Power Selection
9142d3cf82dbd7dd328c999a67824940.jpg

"The right look should suffice."
vampeyes.png



Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

That should be all, but one more for good luck.  Feel free to post.


Originally posted by mc-drowbane:

LMAO - I totally approve of this.

I'll delete this post if need be.  Carry on. 


Originally posted by LlamasNotsheep:

Best guide ever.  I'm impressed with how quickly you finished it.

You're not actually thinking of changing it, right?  Because it's perfect right now. 


Originally posted by mc-drowbane:

Best guide ever.  I'm impressed with how quickly you finished it.

You're not actually thinking of changing it, right?  Because it's perfect right now. 

Thread win. 


Originally posted by twisted9:

This is awesome. Looking forward to it.


Originally posted by Cyvaris:

Those first two posts are just awesome. You really need to archive them/keep them in. Both had me in tears, probably a bad thing when I am in class.

Really a great handbook, I think it covers all the aspects and complexities of the Vampire class.


Originally posted by Damon_Tor:

So are all the vampire powers Gold?  You literally have to take them, you don't get any more "must take" than that.

Not really sure why you needed to reserve so many spaces.

Racially, any race that doesn't have both Dex and Cha is red: a vampire needs both reasonably high in order to his with the powers that key off of cha (and it's not like be can choose not to take those powers)

a guide to vampires will consist of a discussion about races (ie, pick a dex/cha race, all others are traps) ability scores (ie, pick 18 dex, 14 cha, and 11 con, all others are traps) and the section on powers which will have exactly two entries, level 2 and level 22, with two powers each.

Can't poach powers in any meaningful way (and even if you do, your striker feature won't work with them) and you'll be at a loss for paragon paths for a similar reason.

The only section which will see anything like an actual guide will be on feats, which will be a standard mix of basic feat taxes (unarmored agility, improved defenses, expertise... is there a "focus" feat available?) specific vampire feat taxes (durable, maybe others)  The items section is likely to be interesting because it will include items wich cost healing surges to use.


Originally posted by sirrus21:

It...it's beautiful.  If the guide were nothing but Iconic Vampire, I would be ecstatic to read it for vampire-building advice.  

Though in seriousness, I would have to agree with Damon_Tor for the most part.  With fixed powers mostly negating power choice and the split attack stats (some powers rely on Dex, others on Cha) making any race that isn't Dex/Cha just not optimal, it's hard to pick the better choice...because there really isn't a choice.  Luckily there's a lot of races with Dex/Cha though.  Feats, items, and niche builds are pretty much everything here.

Though I do intend to use the Vampire class to build villains.  With some DM tweaking, they can be pretty brutal.


Originally posted by Armisael:

Hahahahaha, amazing! Agree with what others have said here. With the class being on rails as hard as it is, this should totally be a stylish guide. :p


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

Dude. Wait until the class comes out. You might be surprised.

For example, I am already looking into ways to use this with Kulkor, as it gets a Vampire MBA.


Originally posted by Suzume_Stjohn:

Could also rate the powers on how useful they are for others to steal ;) Specially the HE using adept dil. to ghetto MC.  The dex based MBA will be big for some builds.  The only downside is that it's a implement attack, but eh, we'll see how it goes.  ;)


Originally posted by Aegeri:

I have never been more keen to read one of the handbooks of this board.


Originally posted by CrimsonAssassin:

This guide is dripping with win.

So I just now read someone saying that the Vampire'll have implement attacks based on CHA?  Hmmm...agreed that a DEX/CHA race will be optimal and I can go off some off the top of my head.

Halfling (lolsmallvampire)
Drow (sexy elf vampire)
Changeling (that shapeshifting effect could come up more often in a campaign if you're caught biting someone)
Goblin (eww...)


Originally posted by Caeric:

Ha. I approve of this guide.

But what is there to even say for the Vampire? Your class-based choices are limited to two utility levels. There's only one class paragon path. There's no class feats. Multiclassing for powers will negate your striker damage on those powers. You have to have high Dexterity and high Charisma to make sure all of your powers are useful, and that means that you don't have a lot of wiggle room for ability score spread (or race choice, since those boosts will matter quite a bit).

This is going to be one short guide.


Originally posted by tsuyoshikentsu:

To be honest, that's why I'm comfortable writing it. I'm not that great at optimization outside of skills, so the only thing I feel I could do justice is something like this.

Also, doing the handbook lets me pick exactly how much Iconic Vampire will be in it. C'est-a-dire, a lot.


Originally posted by Bargle0:

This is going to be one short guide.

There is nothing short about Iconic Vampire.


Originally posted by Backlash3906:

Here's the numbers on those implement attacks. :)

Dexterity Attacks
1 Melee-1 vs Fort At-Will
1 Melee-1 vs Reflex At-Will
2 Close blast 3 vs Fortitude Daily
2 Melee-1 vs Reflex Encounter
1 Close burst 1 vs Reflex Daily
1 Close blast 5 vs Fortitude Daily

Charisma (+2) Attacks
1 Ranged 5 vs Will At-Will
1 Ranged 5 vs Will Daily
1 Close burst 2 vs Will Daily (Beguiler Paragon Path lv20 power)
And then a reasonably complicated level 20 attack for the Stalker PP.

All of these powers are numbered, and some run in sequences of direct replacements of one another.
Swarm of Shadows (Lv 1) >> Hungry Swarm (Lv 15) >> Consuming Swarm (Lv 29)
Domineering Gaze (Lv 9) >> Irresistible Gaze (Lv 25)

This leads me to believe that further powers for the class will also run in sequences. Similar to the Warpriest and Cavalier/Blackguard domain/virtue/vice sequences.


Originally posted by Undrhil:

Actually, the Races section of the Vampire class description talks about Halfling Vampires.  Personally, I'm thinking about making a Shade Vampire, just because that would be awesome. 
smile.gif


I wish the Vampire class had a MC feat for it, but since it's written Essentials-style, there is no MC feat. 
sad.gif
  I guess half-elves in LFR get the best of this since they can retrain their racial power pick and get a Vampire at-will and then take Adept Dilletante to be multiclassed into it.  Not sure if PMCing will be a viable option, but I guess a half-elf playing a CHA primary class could make off with the CHA+2 Vampire at-will and have it as an actual at-will power at paragon...


Originally posted by Aegeri:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?


Originally posted by Rokku:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

Healing surges are for fools.  Fools and liberals.


Originally posted by mellored:

Looks like a job for revenant (warforged). Might not be iconic, but minor action surgless heal will go a long way, and allow you to use your surges for damage instead of healing.


Originally posted by Undrhil:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

What's wrong with a Shade Vampire?  I happen to like the fact that I can use my allies as shiel- --- ... err, cover.  ;)  And then, after the combat, they let me heal.  It's a win-win. .... for me. 
smile.gif



Originally posted by raleel:

I've not laughed so hard at a thread on this board ever.


Originally posted by MalakLightfoot:

Shade vampire? You're being ironic yes?

My group has been dominating during this season of Encounters, so I was planning on making a Shade Vampire for next reason to up the challenge on myself a little more. 
smile.gif



Originally posted by Zathris:

[SIZE=large] [/SIZE][SIZE=large] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=small][SIZE=large]OBEY[/SIZE][SIZE=large][SIZE=small][SIZE=large] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/size]



[SIZE=large][SIZE=large]
ex_20110311.jpg
[/SIZE][/size]

[SIZE=large][SIZE=large]MY THIRST [/SIZE][/size]​


Originally posted by Mand12:

HALFLING VAMPIRE

Bringing new meaning to the term "ankle biter" since 2011!


Originally posted by meleeeci:

I think you should put the "reserving for future disagreement" feat in light blue. It's useful for almost every race.


Originally posted by Caeric:

I think you should put the "reserving for future disagreement" feat in light blue. It's useful for almost every race.
Now hold on there! [Insert feat here] isn't that good for [insert race, class, paragon path, feat, or power here], and that's kind of a big deal. I wouldn't rate [insert feat here] higher than blue, especially if you aren't using [insert feat or power here].

[Insert completely different feat here] should definately be red, I think. No synergy at all.


Originally posted by XunValDorl_of_H...:

I was thinking about a Blood Red Shardmind Vampire, but since they don't need to eat or drink then I guess the dependency on blood is out.


Originally posted by Reg06:

HALFLING VAMPIRE


Bringing new meaning to the term "ankle biter" since 2011!


*cough* 2002 *cough*
 






Herobizkit

Adventurer
Still cracks me up. A Hybrid Vampire is by far and away better than the class on its own.

Also the challenge of how many time you can have the word 'Vampire' or Vampire-related words in your build.
 

MwaO

Explorer
Still cracks me up. A Hybrid Vampire is by far and away better than the class on its own.

Also the challenge of how many time you can have the word 'Vampire' or Vampire-related words in your build.

There's actually about 3 ways to make it work, 2 of which will probably make most games go nuts. Namely:
Be an Elf, MC Fighter with Battle Awareness, power swap Rain of Blows, take the paragon path Shock Trooper. Str 16, Dex 18, Wis 14, Cha 12. Yeah, you regen slowly, but that's kind of irrelevant with how many surges Martial Vampire gives every combat.

MC Sorcerer, power swap for Flame Spiral, take the paragon path Demonskin Adept. Be Fey for something similar to Firegoat

Both of those get a pair of what ought to be triple-attacks and therefore novas. They'll still hit really hard with their MBAs.

Be a Vampire who is the relatively standard one, MC Rogue for Low Slash, and pick up a Crusader's Mace - which happens to be the one weapon-based implement that standard Vampires have proficiency by default and converts damage into radiant - meaning you can do standard Radiant damage optimization. Be a Werebear with Claw Gloves - you're now able to hit for about 50 points of damage in early paragon. This won't break any games, but at least they're noticeable.
 

That's because the 4e rules handle that.

PC who loses a healing surge with none left = take bloodied value in damage. Or, in other words, "Ouch!"

Not a vampire question, but in an upcoming encounter this is going to be really relevant for the PCs. Which rulebook holds this?
 

MwaO

Explorer
Not a vampire question, but in an upcoming encounter this is going to be really relevant for the PCs. Which rulebook holds this?

It doesn't. Some effects specify what happens when a PC without any surges left lose one. A good rule of thumb is that you take 1/4 of your hp's worth of damage and if you're already unconscious, you in effect 'fail a death save'

I generally think it is a really bad idea to get anywhere close to that from a DM perspective. Make people die because they rolled a little poorly and used bad tactics, so they understand it was their decisions, not because they played a controller over a defender...
 

Not a vampire question, but in an upcoming encounter this is going to be really relevant for the PCs. Which rulebook holds this?

As others have said, there simply is no such rule in 4e. Its a common misconception because there are a number of situations where SPECIFIC rules state a loss of surge value if no surge is available, but without a general rule its a specific case-by-case thing, so if its not stated, there's no such loss.
 

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