D&D 5E (2024) The Versatile STR Fighter: Melee with a Real Ranged Option

[ECMO3]

High mental stat is a top 10 Rogue fantasy.

High mental stat and using it to cast a spell to make your dagger glow is not a top 10 Rogue fantasy,

I agree with this.

 

[FrogReaver]

On thrown weapons:
The major benefits of having a good ranged attack is contingent on that ranged attack having a decent range. Thrown Weapons don't. They mostly function as an extended range gap closer, not as an option that greatly increases tactical flexibility in the same ways that even a 60ft or 150ft ranged attack can, even if the calculated DPR may be higher.

Essentially they are insufficient as a ranged backup option for fighters.

On GW Fighting Style:
I think it's better than most realize for Greatswords and Mauls. Probably overall on par with defensive in those circumstances.

On Str-Focus+GWM+14 Dex+Archery Style combo:
Of particular note is that this isn't locking you into any races or subclasses. That’s why comparisons to things like High Elf Eldritch Knights miss the point - this isn’t a niche build, it’s a broad STR‑primary framework with a legitimate ranged mode.

It works on Barbarians as well (minus archery style)
Even though rage+reckless+subclass damage makes javelins good, that does cause attacks against you to have advantge. For times when you don't want to grant advantage to be hit, your ranged DPR doesn't suffer that much since Barbarian naturally goes for 14 dex and often GWM as well. Also abilities like Zealot Damage bonus works on ranged bow attacks as well.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

On thrown weapons:
The major benefits of having a good ranged attack is contingent on that ranged attack having a decent range. Thrown Weapons don't. They mostly function as an extended range gap closer, not as an option that greatly increases tactical flexibility in the same ways that even a 60ft or 150ft ranged attack can, even if the calculated DPR may be higher.

Essentially they are insufficient as a ranged backup option for fighters.

On GW Fighting Style:
I think it's better than most realize for Greatswords and Mauls. Probably overall on par with defensive in those circumstances.

On Str-Focus+GWM+14 Dex+Archery Style combo:
Of particular note is that this isn't locking you into any races or subclasses. That’s why comparisons to things like High Elf Eldritch Knights miss the point - this isn’t a niche build, it’s a broad STR‑primary framework with a legitimate ranged mode.

It works on Barbarians as well (minus archery style)
Even though rage+reckless+subclass damage makes javelins good, that does cause attacks against you to have advantge. For times when you don't to grant advantage to be hit, your ranged DPR doesn't suffer that much since Barbarian naturally goes for 14 dex and often GWM as well. Also abilities like Zealot Damage bonus works on ranged bow attacks as well.

May be a bit of hyperbole for me to call GWF style "ass". It is better than that in practice. I just REALLY like savage attacker in practice and that origin feat can mitigate quite a bit of the purpose of GWF (NOT COMPLETELY)

 

[CreamCloud0]

On thrown weapons:
The major benefits of having a good ranged attack is contingent on that ranged attack having a decent range. Thrown Weapons don't. They mostly function as an extended range gap closer, not as an option that greatly increases tactical flexibility in the same ways that even a 60ft or 150ft ranged attack can, even if the calculated DPR may be higher.

Essentially they are insufficient as a ranged backup option for fighters.

honestly a fighting style that just makes thrown weapons accurate to their full range would probably be far more useful to thrown weapons than the current +2 damage the current thrown weapon style provides, it'd put your best damage option at d8+STR (60ft) with the trident and the best ranged option at d6+STR (120ft) with the javelin.

 

[Zardnaar]

May be a bit of hyperbole for me to call GWF style "ass". It is better than that in practice. I just REALLY like savage attacker in practice and that origin feat can mitigate quite a bit of the purpose of GWF (NOT COMPLETELY)

Its decent on 2d6 weapons ass on d12 and d10. If I'm not using 2d6 I go with +1 AC.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Its decent on 2d6 weapons ass on d12 and d10. If I'm not using 2d6 I go with +1 AC.

Fair

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Its decent on 2d6 weapons ass on d12 and d10. If I'm not using 2d6 I go with +1 AC.

Also closer to true "ass" or at least "cheeks" on half-martials that aren't throwing quite so many attacks out there. Might be ok on Berserker barbs, but savage attacker is stronger for big single attack pops.. multi attacks and frequent use start to add up though.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Also closer to true "ass" or at least "cheeks" on half-martials that aren't throwing quite so many attacks out there. Might be ok on Berserker barbs, but savage attacker is stronger for big single attack pops.. multi attacks and frequent use start to add up though.

Could be ok for cleaving too

 

[CreamCloud0]

honestly a fighting style that just makes thrown weapons accurate to their full range would probably be far more useful // it'd put your best damage option at d8+STR (60ft) with the trident

I had a moment just now remembering the prerelease masteries instead of the current ones and for a few glorious moments i was imagining the possibility of combining versatile mastery (flex was it?) with my proposed fighting style for a d10+STR (60ft) thrown weapon.

 

[FrogReaver]

With Truestrike you cause Vex after every hit (ranged or melee) and otherwise rely on the same requirements for opportunity attacks as everyone else. So you are not a steady aim turret. You are a basic Rogue using a Rapier and a Shortbow and doing extra damage.

IMO. The bigger issue, which you rightfully point out later in your post, is that a Rogue only gets 2 weapon masteries. If you take shortbow (vex) you don't have room for shortsword (vex) and scimitar/dagger (nick).

Steady Aim is a good back up engine for advantage, it's not a good primary engine due to the mobility restrictions - which is why having shortbow (vex) mastery is soo important.

Using Truestrike makes them less of a 1-trick pony, and it does not lock you out of anything. You can still take the attack action if you have the Truestrike Cantrip, so you can still use two weapon fighting when you want to, although typically you would not have nick. Using Truestrike is generally going to be a substantially better option most of the time though after level 5.

I think you leave off some substantial tradeoffs. I'm not going to speak too broadly because it depends on the precise incarnation for the precise differentiations.

In general

• True Strike is ~+20% Damage for most of the game
• The ability to change damage types to radiant can be helpful
• Dex Primary has higher AC and Initiative (this gap only grows with level)
• Dex Primary has very good feats (mage slayer, sentinel, skulker)

Notable Considerations
Also worth noting: true strike can still be picked up on the dex primary character as a backup to help deal with resistances as they almost certainly have at least 1 mental stat at 14.

I would normally talk about tradeoffs in gaining truestrike, but I think arcane trickster is generally the best rogue subclass - and he get's true strike innately. With the right DM thief deserves honorable mention.

Summary
As such, the primary combat tradeoffs seem to be offensive vs defensive and dex feats vs mental feats. I think the combat tradeoffs are comparable enough, unless you are looking at near max level.

Out of Combat - Depends on table
For out of combat, there's going to be alot of DM variation there, so out of combat is more of a consider your table style optimization than general optimization. I personally consider a minimum roll of 20 to be a particularly important breakpoint. Many DM's tend to focus on Dc 15 or Dc 20 checks with little differentiation of the small incremental steps between, meaning you'll very likely beat all but the extremely difficult to beat checks. Thus. I love the idea that by level 7 a rogue can guarantee a minimum of 20 in his stat scaling expertise skills. For a true strike rogue the best skills to scale would be wisdom or charisma skills, but they don't mesh well with the arcane trickster chassis. A minimum of 20 in stealth can also be very good, but it greatly depends on how the DM runs rogue's scouting ahead and stealth in general.