D&D 5E The Warrior

[Quickleaf]

n/day has always been a mechanic of convenience. When EGG settled on Vancian, it wasn't to emulate the fiction of Jack Vance, it was to give magic-users a "relatively short spoken spell" they could cast practically, do something effective, without overwhelming everything else. (It didn't work, magic-users still dominated at higher levels, but that's what he was going for according to his own commentary in the 1e DMG.)

Vancian 'memorization' was dropped for preparation then un-explained spontaneous, now all casters are spontaneous and the memorization/preparation narrative explanation of slots-per-day is gone.

Really? I had no idea about that tidbit of gaming history. Was that from your personal conversations or from a book or something? I always assumed it was because Gary was a fan of Vance's portrayal of magic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Really? I had no idea about that tidbit of gaming history. Was that from your personal conversations or from a book or something? I always assumed it was because Gary was a fan of Vance's portrayal of magic.

Like I said, 1e DMG - I read the 1e 'core' books to death as a kid, passages remain burned into my memory in places that I'd've been much better off with more practical knowledge. And, yes, I'm sure he'd've never thought of it if he hadn't been a fan of Vance. Vance was a giant of science-fiction in the 50s and was very influential, not just Gygax, but MZB (Darkover), Gene Wolfe (Urth) owe him a debt for the Dying Earth and the sub-genre it established (though, Gygax, alone, lifted the magic system, AFAIK).

 

[Quickleaf]

Like I said, 1e DMG - I read the 1e 'core' books to death as a kid, passages remain burned into my memory in places that I'd've been much better off with more practical knowledge. And, yes, I'm sure he'd've never thought of it if he hadn't been a fan of Vance. Vance was a giant of science-fiction in the 50s and was very influential, not just Gygax, but MZB (Darkover), Gene Wolfe (Urth) owe him a debt for the Dying Earth and the sub-genre it established (though, Gygax, alone, lifted the magic system, AFAIK).

Do you recall if it was the Magic chapter in the 1e DMG or Appendix N maybe? I'm curious to read the section you're referencing; I think understanding Gary's design intentions with limited-use spells could be helpful for me.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Do you recall if it was the Magic chapter in the 1e DMG or Appendix N maybe? I'm curious to read the section you're referencing; I think understanding Gary's design intentions with limited-use spells could be helpful for me.

Sadly, it's the passages, not the page numbers that are burned into my memory. I'll look it up when I get home. But, I think it's a foreward or something, might be the same one that discusses the use of 'level' (originally spells, dungeons, characters, monsters, &c weren't all going to use the world 'level' but others, I don't remember all of them, something like 'circle' 'order' 'power' etc).

Edit: Heck, it might be in the PH. The last time I was convinced I was remembering a quote in the PH that was phrased quite differently from what I found there, it turned to have been the DMG phrasing that I was remembering.

Interestingly, the point was more that Vancian spells were almost unique in being quick to cast and requiring only the spoken word, as contrasted with more traditional ritual magic with 'material outlay' or somesuch.

...

Now I want to re-read it again, too....

 

[Tony Vargas]

Do you recall if it was the Magic chapter in the 1e DMG or Appendix N maybe? I'm curious to read the section you're referencing; I think understanding Gary's design intentions with limited-use spells could be helpful for me.

Not in the DMG. Googling the specific phrases I remembered points to an article in The Dragon, very early Dragon, I must have read it in one of the 'Best of' compilations....

 

[Garthanos]

This is old but intriguing as I have been thinking one of the best ways to make a lot of characters from 4e actually translate into 5e might be making the fighter more versatile and flexible instead of always feeling like a low mobility striker with other elements partially pasted one.

 

[Garthanos]

n/day has always been a mechanic of convenience. When EGG settled on Vancian, it wasn't to emulate the fiction of Jack Vance, it was to give magic-users a "relatively short spoken spell" they could cast practically, do something effective, without overwhelming everything else. (It didn't work, magic-users still dominated at higher levels, but that's what he was going for according to his own commentary in the 1e DMG.)

Vancian 'memorization' was dropped for preparation then un-explained spontaneous, now all casters are spontaneous and the memorization/preparation narrative explanation of slots-per-day is gone.

That might have been in a magazine I remember reading it too.