The way my party finds out which sword is better... legal?
- Thread starter MerakSpielman
- Start date
BSF
Explorer
Well, as I see it, the crux of the issue is that Merak doesn't like the bookkeeping to track who is carrying around what. And really, how many of us do like that?
By the book, Detact Magic will show the strength of the aura. That's all. They can guess at the range of the enchantment, but they still don't have specifics. Identify is a simple solution to offload the bookkeeping back to the players.
Because Detect Magic has been used differently in this campaign, it is now a psuedo-replacement for Identify. You still need identify to obtain command words and figure out what many wonderous items do, but you don't need it for the specifics of a magic weapon.
My advice: If it works and everyone is happy, don't sweat it. Technically, it is not by the book, but that is the biggest drawback.
Now, if you want to change things, consider running it strictly by the book. Detecting magic on a weapon will give you one of 4 aura strengths. They can guess from there. If they want the _real_ answer, then they need to use Identify.
As an alternative, make it a spellcraft check to differentiate between a moderate +2 and a moderate +3 aura.
For added fun, specificy that the weapon is only as good as they have determined it to be. It is +3, but they biff the spellcraft check, it functions as a +2. Though, this solution is kind of silly and is really just a way to encourage them to use Identify.
By the book, Detact Magic will show the strength of the aura. That's all. They can guess at the range of the enchantment, but they still don't have specifics. Identify is a simple solution to offload the bookkeeping back to the players.
Because Detect Magic has been used differently in this campaign, it is now a psuedo-replacement for Identify. You still need identify to obtain command words and figure out what many wonderous items do, but you don't need it for the specifics of a magic weapon.
My advice: If it works and everyone is happy, don't sweat it. Technically, it is not by the book, but that is the biggest drawback.
Now, if you want to change things, consider running it strictly by the book. Detecting magic on a weapon will give you one of 4 aura strengths. They can guess from there. If they want the _real_ answer, then they need to use Identify.
As an alternative, make it a spellcraft check to differentiate between a moderate +2 and a moderate +3 aura.
For added fun, specificy that the weapon is only as good as they have determined it to be. It is +3, but they biff the spellcraft check, it functions as a +2. Though, this solution is kind of silly and is really just a way to encourage them to use Identify.
As stated above, adding a powerful cursed item is a nice way to stop this.
Another way is Aura of Non-Detection (I think thats the spell name) which hides magical auras. Then the party when they kill the big villian, and cast detect magic on the sword/item, it doesn't glow. They assume its non-magical and leave it with the corpse. What a loss of a nice artifact.
Continiously mixing the stated ways to fool them and with the more generic (power rating) will keep them on their toes.
Also if the item has a special power, like a flame blade, you could make it activated by a command word or special gesture, again which would not be revealed by a Detect magic (does Identify even give CM? - may have to go with legend lore or similar higher level).
Another way is Aura of Non-Detection (I think thats the spell name) which hides magical auras. Then the party when they kill the big villian, and cast detect magic on the sword/item, it doesn't glow. They assume its non-magical and leave it with the corpse. What a loss of a nice artifact.
Continiously mixing the stated ways to fool them and with the more generic (power rating) will keep them on their toes.
Also if the item has a special power, like a flame blade, you could make it activated by a command word or special gesture, again which would not be revealed by a Detect magic (does Identify even give CM? - may have to go with legend lore or similar higher level).
dcollins
Explorer
To respond to the main topic of the thread, I personally have no problem with this tactic of using detect magic. In fact, I think it would be terrific if players were referring to items according to how PCs see them in-game as just being either Faint, Moderate, or Strong enchantments. (Instead of the out-of-game statistical numbers.)
To hark back to the original days of D&D, here's what you did -- let the PC use the item, for real, in a real combat. In so doing, the PC can tell how well it helps them, and the DM just tells them the actual bonus at that point (hence, no secret DM bookeeping on the enhancement end). That's how I would handle it still today. Of course, along with that went a lot of language that "mock fights don't count" and "cursed items stick to you after you use them" as counterbalances.
To hark back to the original days of D&D, here's what you did -- let the PC use the item, for real, in a real combat. In so doing, the PC can tell how well it helps them, and the DM just tells them the actual bonus at that point (hence, no secret DM bookeeping on the enhancement end). That's how I would handle it still today. Of course, along with that went a lot of language that "mock fights don't count" and "cursed items stick to you after you use them" as counterbalances.
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With a successful spellcraft check you can also identify the school of the magics. With time (2-3 rounds) you can identify the number of multiple auras. Detect Magic is a great substitute for Identify, but you need a high spellcraft skill to use it effectively.
BardStephenFox said:
Norfleet
First Post
Yeah, the entire "mock fights don't count" idea never really worked out well. What determines whether a fight is a "mock fight" or not? Does this mean an unidentified magic weapon is useless in a duel that's only fought to first blood, since it's not a life-or-death battle, and therefore, is a "mock fight", while the weapon, once identified, operates properly even in mock fights?dcollins said:
Meanwhile, the "cursed item sticks to you after you use them", would often mean that a -1 cursed item is actually BETTER than its mundane counterpart in nearly all circumstances: Sure, the accuracy and damage suffers somewhat, but that's a small price to pay for a weapon you can never lose, even if somebody steals it from you: The moment you try to attack with it, it'll appear in your hand and force you to use it....which is what you want.
This kind of thinking MAY be only a personal predilection for trying to turn disadvantages into advantages, and the advantages of enemies into disadvantages, a method of thinking which has served me well in my career in the military and freelancing, but I doubt it: An entire MUD full of people who all independently arrived at such conclusions can't be wrong.
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
Stickycurse isn't the only kind of curse, of course. And the weapon can compel you to draw it instead of magically appearing in your hand.
There's another way, too: use the method of the Mace of Blood (in the Cursed Items section of the DMG), but with another daily non-Evil ritual required to "activate" the item for a day. The Sword of Crom would require a prayer to Crom at dawn, for example.
Let them figure out why it's magic but doesn't help them at all.
Oh, and 3.5e Identify makes players and DMs happy.
-- N
There's another way, too: use the method of the Mace of Blood (in the Cursed Items section of the DMG), but with another daily non-Evil ritual required to "activate" the item for a day. The Sword of Crom would require a prayer to Crom at dawn, for example.
Let them figure out why it's magic but doesn't help them at all.
Oh, and 3.5e Identify makes players and DMs happy.
-- N
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
I can generally tell what plus a weapon is within the first or second combat that its used in - just paying attention to what AC's people hit, etc.
I agree that the point shouldn't be to make the PC's identify stuff, or make it more difficult to discern the qualities of a weapon, but there's no particular reason why a weapon would glow brighter the higher the enchantment. I don't think there's anything in the rules to imply that. I seem to recall that the creator can determine if a weapon glows or not (that may be a latent 2nd Edition memory).
I agree that the point shouldn't be to make the PC's identify stuff, or make it more difficult to discern the qualities of a weapon, but there's no particular reason why a weapon would glow brighter the higher the enchantment. I don't think there's anything in the rules to imply that. I seem to recall that the creator can determine if a weapon glows or not (that may be a latent 2nd Edition memory).
