Theory: Coming to the Table

[apoptosis]

This specific point isn't an argument you should make.

Have you ever tried to do anything in life? Have you ever wanted to succeed at anything? Were you ever afraid at failing? Have you ever made a plan and have it succeed or fail?

Or does everything "just happen" to you.

We could all just roleplay rocks, but that would get pretty dull in no short time.

Well once again, that is not succeeding at life that is succeeding at some goal in life. They are definitely not the same thing.

In an RPG your character could succeed at a goal (killing the dragon) but you didnt win roleplaying.

Conversely, if killing the dragon was boring then you didnt succeed at the game if your goal was having a really interesting dramatic duel with the dragon.

 

[bert1000]

Well, I thought there might be some interesting nugget of rpg theory in this discussion but it seems to have devolved into a war of definitions, at best.

Howandwhy, enjoy your definition of roleplaying game. I will stick to mine, and hope the (real) world doesn’t dictate something different.

I respectfully retire.

 

[apoptosis]

Well, I thought there might be some interesting nugget of rpg theory in this discussion but it seems to have devolved into a war of definitions, at best.

Howandwhy, enjoy your definition of roleplaying game. I will stick to mine, and hope the (real) world doesn’t dictate something different.

I respectfully retire.

It started that way but kind of got bogged down into the roleplaying debate (i am a main culprit of this) vs understanding challenge resolution and how it impacts gaming experience.

 

[Mallus]

That would be telling the players what they ask about.

That's called narration. I'm using the word correctly. In a simple, common sense, good faith, not at all Forge-like way.

And saying things like "you feel the house is homey" is off limits.

My players aren't so sensitive that they get all up in arms over me employing an adjective or two. Or five, or six...

Stories can't be "games" as I pointed out earlier. You can't win or lose at a story. It's already preconceived.

I said D&D was story-like, I said nothing about stories being games. Pay attention, there will be a quiz later.

D&D is story-like because it involves fictional characters in fictional surroundings, usually navigating conflicts/obstacles, generally operating in a well... story-like manner. It differs in that outcomes are not predetermined, in that there are victory/loss conditions, task resolution mechanics and other game-like structures, etc.

Railroading Players through "stories" is widely considered bad DMing.

Saying that RPG's have some of the characteristics of stories doesn't imply railroading, at all. Neither of does the use of the word narration.

Because narration doesn't exist in roleplaying games.

Semantics.

It bothers me because the whole of it is a conceit devised by a small cadre of RPG-hating theorist in a small corner of the RPG community with the intention to denigrate everything that actually IS an RPG as "incoherent".

For that last time, 'narration' means something outside of what the Forge says it does.

 

[am181d]

So you keep trying to say. And I keep proving you wrong. The DM is describing the world as it enfolds before the players in character. How is that narration? There is no storytelling going on there. Narrations are told after the fact.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I have to say this: It's pretty clear you don't know what the word "narration" means.

 

[Lorthanoth]

1) I really don't want to play an RPG as defined by howandwhy99 and

2) where's Hong?

 

[pawsplay]

I understand that "Convential" is 3rd of 3 resolution mechanics players have. Your hierarchy places these at #6. Least Desirable.

No, what is least desirable is when the game doesn't give you a clear, useful choice within the system. Some conventional resolutions are not only preferable, but necessary; for instance, deciding when and where the adventure begins.

 

[howandwhy99]

That's what I think you mean when you say "playing God" and that playing God isn't playing an RPG.

That'd be funny LostSoul if there weren't already instances in this thread of bad game design where players do just that. Like the previous "throwing enemies overboard and declaring there are demonsharks there who might eat him."

 

[howandwhy99]

Well once again, that is not succeeding at life that is succeeding at some goal in life. They are definitely not the same thing.

In an RPG your character could succeed at a goal (killing the dragon) but you didnt win roleplaying.

Conversely, if killing the dragon was boring then you didnt succeed at the game if your goal was having a really interesting dramatic duel with the dragon.

You don't have to agree with me about overall success in life, if you don't want to. Score isn't really kept for that anyways. Score is kept for succeeding at other things. Like killing monsters. As your post above says we agree on that, I don't see this as the point.

It's more that others prefer to do it while not roleplaying, while I do.

I respectfully retire.

See you. I can stop too, if folks here are tired of arguing. The boards are going down anyways...

 

[howandwhy99]

D&D is story-like because it involves fictional characters in fictional surroundings, usually navigating conflicts/obstacles, generally operating in a well... story-like manner. It differs in that outcomes are not predetermined, in that there are victory/loss conditions, task resolution mechanics and other game-like structures, etc.

Maybe a better thing to call this would be... life-like? I don't call my own life "story-like". Or say things like "How's life been narrating you?"

For that last time, 'narration' means something outside of what the Forge says it does.

Well, I'm glad we got that confusion out of the way. So the DM "narrates" (are to be avoid Forge jargon - describes) what is happening in the world based upon what the world is and how it functions. Is that it? And the world gives everyone the "authority" to either run the game or play the characters within.