Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
LIES!!!WizarDru said:My hypothesis is that D&D is popular because it's fun.
[Theory] Why D&D is Popular
- Thread starter mythusmage
- Start date
Kanegrundar
Explorer
What makes D&D so good? Well, for me, this edition adds old stand-bys that I enjoy in my games like dwarves, elves, wizards, fighters, and clerics; puts it all into a system that, while not perfect, is balanced and easy to use. At the same time it's modular enough that I can add and take away pieces to create a game that emulates the settings I dream about. For instance, in the homebrew I'm working on now, I use armor as DR, class-based Defense ratings, a wide range of classes from the PHB, AE, the Complete series, WoW, Dragon, Eberron, and IK, and a wide array of races (most of the standard races from the settings listed above with selection from the Races of series, Races of Reknown series, and Mythic Races). I've expanded each class to 30 levels, and added and expanded some EQ spells to make level 10 spells for classes that didn't have them. So far, it's played great (in the few solo and with my finacee playtest sessions). Other systems would have required more work to do or wouldn't have been able to take the stress of such modification. Being able to play the exact game I've always wanted to run makes D&D 3.5 the best game on the market for me.
Kane
Kane
OT ALERT!
A time I like to call the "Second Red Scare."
In the Midwest at least, it seemed that the word "Satanic" was a crudely used synonom for "unwanted influence on my kids." D&D was santanic, rock n' roll was satanic, TV (before cable) was satanic. Allegedly half of the teenagers in the nation were commiting suicide when the D&D TV Show with a Heavy Metal soundtrack became vaporware. (remember when etherware was also vaporware?)
Wombat said:
A time I like to call the "Second Red Scare."
In the Midwest at least, it seemed that the word "Satanic" was a crudely used synonom for "unwanted influence on my kids." D&D was santanic, rock n' roll was satanic, TV (before cable) was satanic. Allegedly half of the teenagers in the nation were commiting suicide when the D&D TV Show with a Heavy Metal soundtrack became vaporware. (remember when etherware was also vaporware?)
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Most (I'd say at least 75%) of the people in America know the term "D&D."
They may know the game. They may know the devil-worship rumors. They may know the books. They may know the video games. They may even know the awful movie.
Regardless, the term means something to them.
"World of Darkness?" "GURPS?" "Palladium?" "HERO?"
People outside the RPG community don't have the faintest idea what those are, and they're the biggest competitors to D&D (but see below). Probably less than 5% of the American populace know anything about those games; most don't even know they're games at all.
D&D has uncontested brand recognition like, frankly, no other product I can think of. McDonalds? We know Burger King almost as well, and most regions have a third option just as prominent in their area, be it Wendy's or Hardee's or whatever. WalMart? Competitors K-Mart and Target still stick around in the public eye. Microsoft? How many people haven't at least heard of Linux and Apple? Playstation? For all its market dominance, Nintendo and Microsoft get a similar level of coverage.
None of D&D's competitors are known quantities to the non-gaming populace. A new player interested in RPGs is going to play D&D nine times out of ten - if not ninety-nine times out of a hundred.
Depending on how it markets its Warhammer RPG (and how much it cares about conquering a niche market), Games Workshop could conceivably take D&D's crown. Warhammer is almost certainly the third most recognizable fantasy brand (after Lord of the Rings and D&D). It has massive market penetration in the gaming community and a level of awareness outside that community no other D&D competitor can lay claim to. Money could push Warhammer to similar levels of popular awareness - one GOOD movie (or, even more effective, one good TV series) could put it ahead forever. Time and gameplay could put Warhammer ahead.
However, a funny thing happened in the '90s. D&D, perhaps the most dominant brand name in any industry (how ever niche its industry may be), teetered on the brink of disaster. White Wolf even managed to outsell TSR one year! No brand name, however dominant, can stand forever without at least putting forth a solid product. D&D, in the minds of its fans and the trickle coming new to the hobby, *wasn't* a solid product.
3e changed all that. D&D is back on top, as market-dominant as it's been since the '80s, perhaps even since the '70s. The d20 system proved marketable to existing players (bringing back the lost sheep, as it were) and perhaps even more so to new ones. The 3e core books sold in unprecedented numbers.
D&D is solid again. It may even be very good.
Solid is all it needs to be to achieve the level its publishers want, though: it is once again the default RPG, and the common ground for the vast majority of RPG players. It's again the 'gateway product' for the industry.
We've seen that the D&D brand isn't invulnerable. The actual D&D game has to have a certain appeal, or no amount of marketing can save it. Like any dominant brand, it doesn't have to be the best option for anyone, it just has to be an acceptable option for everyone. Like K-Mart to WalMart, it CAN fall if it flounders and its competitor responds - but like Nintendo to Sega in the 16-bit era, it can also resume its throne by adapting, improving, and hitting back hard.
The near-flop of 2e AD&D demonstrates just how far its publishers had drifted from their target market's desires; the unprecedented revival of 3e D&D demonstrates how adeptly its developers identified and met those desires.
A brand like Warhammer (or, even more so, Final Fantasy - if its creators ever tried the pen & paper market) could unseat D&D. But it would need a very appealing game system to go along with it - not just the equal of d20, but its clear superior.
They may know the game. They may know the devil-worship rumors. They may know the books. They may know the video games. They may even know the awful movie.
Regardless, the term means something to them.
"World of Darkness?" "GURPS?" "Palladium?" "HERO?"
People outside the RPG community don't have the faintest idea what those are, and they're the biggest competitors to D&D (but see below). Probably less than 5% of the American populace know anything about those games; most don't even know they're games at all.
D&D has uncontested brand recognition like, frankly, no other product I can think of. McDonalds? We know Burger King almost as well, and most regions have a third option just as prominent in their area, be it Wendy's or Hardee's or whatever. WalMart? Competitors K-Mart and Target still stick around in the public eye. Microsoft? How many people haven't at least heard of Linux and Apple? Playstation? For all its market dominance, Nintendo and Microsoft get a similar level of coverage.
None of D&D's competitors are known quantities to the non-gaming populace. A new player interested in RPGs is going to play D&D nine times out of ten - if not ninety-nine times out of a hundred.
Depending on how it markets its Warhammer RPG (and how much it cares about conquering a niche market), Games Workshop could conceivably take D&D's crown. Warhammer is almost certainly the third most recognizable fantasy brand (after Lord of the Rings and D&D). It has massive market penetration in the gaming community and a level of awareness outside that community no other D&D competitor can lay claim to. Money could push Warhammer to similar levels of popular awareness - one GOOD movie (or, even more effective, one good TV series) could put it ahead forever. Time and gameplay could put Warhammer ahead.
However, a funny thing happened in the '90s. D&D, perhaps the most dominant brand name in any industry (how ever niche its industry may be), teetered on the brink of disaster. White Wolf even managed to outsell TSR one year! No brand name, however dominant, can stand forever without at least putting forth a solid product. D&D, in the minds of its fans and the trickle coming new to the hobby, *wasn't* a solid product.
3e changed all that. D&D is back on top, as market-dominant as it's been since the '80s, perhaps even since the '70s. The d20 system proved marketable to existing players (bringing back the lost sheep, as it were) and perhaps even more so to new ones. The 3e core books sold in unprecedented numbers.
D&D is solid again. It may even be very good.
Solid is all it needs to be to achieve the level its publishers want, though: it is once again the default RPG, and the common ground for the vast majority of RPG players. It's again the 'gateway product' for the industry.
We've seen that the D&D brand isn't invulnerable. The actual D&D game has to have a certain appeal, or no amount of marketing can save it. Like any dominant brand, it doesn't have to be the best option for anyone, it just has to be an acceptable option for everyone. Like K-Mart to WalMart, it CAN fall if it flounders and its competitor responds - but like Nintendo to Sega in the 16-bit era, it can also resume its throne by adapting, improving, and hitting back hard.
The near-flop of 2e AD&D demonstrates just how far its publishers had drifted from their target market's desires; the unprecedented revival of 3e D&D demonstrates how adeptly its developers identified and met those desires.
A brand like Warhammer (or, even more so, Final Fantasy - if its creators ever tried the pen & paper market) could unseat D&D. But it would need a very appealing game system to go along with it - not just the equal of d20, but its clear superior.
Odhanan
Adventurer
I think this hits the mark more than everything else.
"D&D is fun" is an hollow statement. It's like saying an argument is "interesting". Lots of games are "fun". And fun means what exactly? Why is a game more fun/entertaining than another? That's the real question IMO.
The same way, the fact it was the first was a huge advantage indeed. But D&D had to keep its place as #1 and did. Why? Because it offers something no other game does so well. What is it exactly? That's the same question.
And I think it is the idea of fantasy itself, and of course the way D&D particularly treats it. Levels, character classes show clear archetypes anyone can understand quickly. If you see a book cover with a guy in toga, a staff in hand, chanting to the heavens with loads of undead below reaching for him, this is a strong image much more understandable to the non-roleplayer than say, a fashion-dressed vampire looking at itself in a mirror. The same way, the word "wizard" is instantly understood. The word "Brujah" requires explanations.
The adaptability of D&D in its third edition is a factor for its present appeal, as well as clear and neat rules where people actually find answers to their questions, but it doesn't answer the entire question of the supremacy of D&D over most of the thirty years of commercial RPGs.
The concept of D&D is also pretty clear. What Mike Mearls calls the core story. The "adventurers gathering their talents to explore dungeons, kill dragons (i.e. all sorts of opponents and monsters), and bring back their loot to the village to do it all over again the next week." It's straightforward, clear, unlike the machinations of vampires or the survival in an apocalyptic world, or the discovery of HP Lovecraft's creations through a dozen of characters either dead or insane.
Last edited:
DragonLancer
Hero
1. Dungeons & Dragons is a recognisable brand name, even among non-gamers, and gone are the days were people instantly associated it with the occult. Its the name that draws players to it I think.
2. D&D has always had a system that fits the genre it plays very very well. I've tried lots of different fantasy RPG systems and the various D&D mechanics have always felt right.
2. D&D has always had a system that fits the genre it plays very very well. I've tried lots of different fantasy RPG systems and the various D&D mechanics have always felt right.
Gruns
Explorer
D&D is popular?
I just asked everyone here at work why D&D is popular. They all just laughed at me. Apparantly D&D is only popular to a very, very minor portion of the population, which in essence makes it not popular at all.
Or did you mean "Why is D&D more popular than any other RPG?" ? In this case I'd have to go with the branding answer. Ask for a Pepsi, you get a Pepsi.
Later!
Gruns
I just asked everyone here at work why D&D is popular. They all just laughed at me. Apparantly D&D is only popular to a very, very minor portion of the population, which in essence makes it not popular at all.
Or did you mean "Why is D&D more popular than any other RPG?" ? In this case I'd have to go with the branding answer. Ask for a Pepsi, you get a Pepsi.
Later!
Gruns
The_Gneech
Explorer
The Shaman said:
Nail head, meet hammer! *whomp*
Once upon a time, D&D was the roleplaying game, and it was everywhere. I bought my copy at Montgomery Wards, fercryinoutloud. It was simple enough to grasp quickly, complex enough to have lots of interesting permutations, and robust enough to do lots of cool things without totally breaking. For a long time, other games were defined in relation to it...
Traveller = "D&D in space"
RuneQuest = "D&D with percentile skills"
(etc.)
-The Gneech
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