There are to many PRC's and Feats (a rant)

[Falcon]

I personally don't mind lots of feats and PrC's. I have pretty much culled out what fits my campaign world, and have enjoyed reading the material, because it has given me ideas for stuff that fits my particular campaign world.

What bothers me is how much paid space I have invested in for these, when there are so many sites that also provide some great ideas, and the fact that publishers seem obligated to provide feats and PrC's in every friggin' module, supplement, or core rules publication.

I think most of us by this time have an idea of how to work with feats and PrC's. Give us more raw material to work with and less finished product and I'd be happier.

 

[SableWyvern]

You've just pointed out the bonus of having lazy players.

I have lazy players. Always have.

They don't buy rulebooks. They only rarely read the ones I own.

So they rarely come to me with stuff I'm not already aware of.

Of course, I have to work that little bit harder educating, but hey, I guess I'm just a far-too-nice-guy.

Anyway, this is how I deal with feats, monsters, PrCs and spells respectively in my games.

Feats: I downloaded the crystalkeep feat list (which is huge), went through it and took out what I wasn't going to use. I have taken it upon myself to get a good feel for the styles of remaining feats it contains. When developing PCs with my players, I listen to what they are looking for in their character, and offer suggestions that fit that concept. With such a wide variety, there is always something that goes with the concept, and since I have the feat knowledge, and not my players, there is no desire to min/max.

PrCs: Very similar to feats. I ask if the player is even interested in a PrC, and then suggest things that suit the concept. This might involve leafing through the relevant books, but this isn't too hard. If the PC is a druid, the logical books (based on what I have) to look at are MotW and T&B. It only takes a couple minutes to go through, pick out PrCs that might fit the character concept, and discuss the pros and cons with the player.

In both these circumstances, the important factor is that the player has a good idea what they want to play before they get too far into character gen. This allows you to weed out 95% of feats and PrCs straight away, while the vast array available means you're practically guaranteed to find what you want amongst the remaining 5%.

Spells: My PCs only ever have standard access to PHB spells. If they take a PrC that has access to spells outside the PHB, then they can learn those spells. Otherwise, the only way to access non-PHB spells is for them to be encountered in play. This has two bonuses: 1. I can closely and fairly monitor the spells that are allowed into my game. 2. I can make available a previously unavailable spell as an additional story award.

Monsters: The only monster book I own is the MM, so no problems there.

 

[LordAO]

Ok, now this is interesting. Peolple are complaining that there are too many options? But isn't that what they are, options? In other words you don't have to use anything you don't want to use. I personally love having new feats, prestige classes, etc coming out all the time. It keeps the game fresh. And who knows? Maybe one of those is just what you have been looking for all along. If you don't want to use all the new stuff, fine. Don't. But don't tell everyone that does want those things that we can't or shouldn't have them in our game. You can play your game the way you want, and the rest of use will do the same.

 

[Numion]

As a DM I don't like the feeling that I get when I have to disallow stuff from books my players have bought (in hopes of getting to use it too.). In effect they've wasted their money.

Relics & Rituals, for example, has a number of spells that let the spellcaster emulate class specific abilities of other classes. Sure is nice for the Paladin when one of their few class abilities is also used by the cleric, who is already superior in other ways. Those kind of spells just take away from the uniqueness of the classes. (Uniqueness of the classes is a strength of the otherwise pretty ridig class system. No point in undermining that.)

 

[Ravellion]

I don't really want to hijack the thread, but what's wrong wrong with the Orb spells? The Ranged Touch Attacks balance them IMO.

If you don't want to clutter up the board: R_Mathot @ y a h o o .com (scrambled for spambots)

Rav

 

[Draconis Imperium]

My sentiments exactly!

No pc in my campaign selects a prestige class, spell or feat from anywhere outside of the core books (that's the PH, MM and DMG)
without consulting with me first. That's because I _don't allow_ a lot of it. Sometimes it's a balance issue (arcane trickster, hospitaler, the 'orb' spells), sometimes it's a flavor issue (dragon disciple; I already have a dragon priest prc). Whatever. If it isn't in the main books no player should count on it being 'in' without checking with the dm.

Thats the point I am making. It never fails though, Someone will buy a new book and decide during game time I want to try this.
My answer is always the same, not until I check it out. I have alot of players who always want to try new things and I don't want to limit creativity, but it does effect the flow of the game. Beside I don't buy every book out, so I don't have time to read them before hand. I like more crunchies but I like a fluff also.
My campaign setting is a variation of FR, so I use alot of the history and settings from there. I like getting fluff, it helps with prep time and sometimes gives me ideas on where to go after we are done here.
I want more of this than another feat,spell or monster. We need more material to work with and more modules than another rulebook.
Remember the days of the Slavers trilogy, The Giants, Tomb of Horrors and all the golden oldies. That is what we need to keep going forward. There are alot of great module already out there but those are what will keep D&D alive not another feat. IMHO

 

[Furn_Darkside]

As a DM I don't like the feeling that I get when I have to disallow stuff from books my players have bought (in hopes of getting to use it too.). In effect they've wasted their money.

Salutations,

I know that feeling, but I am lucky that my players are pretty cheap and rarely buy anything (well, maybe that is not too lucky..).

I think the use of PrC's/feats/spells from other books should all be done, of course, with dm approval. But, the dm should try not to be draconian about it- work with the players and find a way to work their ideas into the campeign.. if at all possible.

The other DM in our group has the stance that if it is printed, then the player can use it.

FD