Theurgist Feats

[Cheiromancer]

You mean caster-level dependent effects, right? Not spells per day.

In other words, this would be like Practised Spellcaster (a little better, actually) affecting two classes.

 

[Machiavelli]

To be fair, this feat doesn't supplant Practiced Spellcaster. It only works on 1 arcane and 1 divine class. It works VERY well on both, but it's still limited. Practiced Spellcaster doesn't even require two casting classes; you could use it on 4 levels of Fighter to boost a level of Wizard, if that's what you want to do. In fact, that's a pretty potent use, because a Fighter certainly can spare a feat.


If, however, this feat works exactly like the Mystic Theurge class, then you just took an entire class progression, which was already brokenly powerful, and compressed it into A SINGLE FEAT. I hope what you mean is that your caster level increases for spell effects, not for spells/day and spells known. PLEASE tell me that's what you mean.

 

[Knightfall]

You mean caster-level dependent effects, right? Not spells per day.

In other words, this would be like Practised Spellcaster (a little better, actually) affecting two classes.

Hmm, actually I meant Spells per Day, but it sounds like that would be too powerful. I'll modify it a bit.

 

[nobodez]

Actually, the MT is a bit weak compared to some of the other Theurge classes out there (Arcane Heirophant for example). I'd personally require at least one Practiced Spellcaster to qualify for the feat, possible both. That way it's just an outgrowth of already invested feats, and becomes a feat chain rather than just a bare feat.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ok, admittedly the Arcane Heirophant is more powerful than the Mystic Theurge... by a very large margin, even. That's because it takes the aspect of the Mystic Theurge that makes it over the top, then adds even MORE useful class features to it! There are no drawbacks to this increase in usefulness. The Arcane Heirophant's existance doesn't make the Mystic Theurge any better balanced against other spellcasters: both of them STILL gain the full spellcasting benefits of two separate base classes, which are balanced against other casters mostly by virtue of their strong spell lists, minus 2 spell levels in one of the classes. Both prestige classes offer no significant drawbacks to this huge boost in spells usable per day and spells available for use.

They just seem so... flagrantly power-hungry. I haven't campaigned with a DM who allowed either prestige class, so I haven't seen them in action, but at high levels I suspect they are serious magical powerhouses.

 

[ValhallaGH]

The really interesting thing about this feat is that a Cleric 7, Wizard 5, Fighter 8 counts as a 20th level Cleric or Wizard for determining spell effects based upon caster level.

 

[ValhallaGH]

This post is a bit off topic. My previous post, located here is very much on topic.

Ok, admittedly the Arcane Heirophant is more powerful than the Mystic Theurge... by a very large margin, even. That's because it takes the aspect of the Mystic Theurge that makes it over the top, then adds even MORE useful class features to it! There are no drawbacks to this increase in usefulness. The Arcane Heirophant's existance doesn't make the Mystic Theurge any better balanced against other spellcasters: both of them STILL gain the full spellcasting benefits of two separate base classes, which are balanced against other casters mostly by virtue of their strong spell lists, minus 2 spell levels in one of the classes. Both prestige classes offer no significant drawbacks to this huge boost in spells usable per day and spells available for use.

I had no idea that only having 7th level spells when everyone else has 8th level spells was a power increase.
Or that having a +8 BAB when your Cleric pals have a +12 was a power increase.
I had no idea that topping out at either 8th level spells in two classes or one 9th level spell per day in one class and one 7th level spell per day in another class was a power increase over the guys with four 9th level spells per day.

I haven't campaigned with a DM who allowed either prestige class, so I haven't seen them in action, but at high levels I suspect they are serious magical powerhouses.

Nevermind, we're both just speculating.
Go ahead and ignore the comments of Machiavelli and myself.
However, you may want to listen to the actual experience of someone that's used this class a lot in play. Like maybe the guy that designed it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060616a

I have noticed that everyone I've heard complain about the MT has never actually seen one in play. They've only looked at the write-up and screamed broken from the rooftops. I have yet to hear balance complaints from folks that have actually tried it out. Unlike the Frenzied Berserker.

 

[Machiavelli]

But, but, but... *sigh*


That's just SO. MANY. SPELLS. It just *feels* wrong. Oh well. Mr. Noonan was pretty dang convincing.

Still, it's so counterintuitive, ya know?

 

[Nifft]

That's just SO. MANY. SPELLS. It just *feels* wrong. Oh well. Mr. Noonan was pretty dang convincing.

Look at it this way: a Warlock has even more "spells" per day!

-- N (discretely walking away from lit can of napalm worms)

 

[Knightfall]

The really interesting thing about this feat is that a Cleric 7, Wizard 5, Fighter 8 counts as a 20th level Cleric or Wizard for determining spell effects based upon caster level.

Actually, the idea of the feat is that is only combines the cleric and wizard levels, not any other levels. Thus, your example character would only count as a 12th level cleric and wizard. I guess saying "character level" in the feat was misleading. :\