Thieves’ cant?

[The Grumpy Celt]

Thieves’ cant?

I am more or less finished writing the EN World Publishing supplement (for the guild book line) Thieves’ Guild. However, there is one final aspect I am working on that I would like some feed back on.

That subject is thieves’ cant. For those who do not know, thieves’ cant is means of communication employed by thieves to secretly communicate with each other, often in the form of unobtrusive sign language. I have not encountered this feature in any 3.0 or 3.5 book – but then I do not have an exhaustive library.

In any event, I see two ways to work thieves’ cant.

1. Language Skill. This is the simplest method and the least mechanically fussy. Thieves’ cant is just another special language, like the one used by druids. So, to acquire thieves’ cant one simply need to purchase it like any other language.

2. Performance Skill. This is more mechanically complicated, but it also offers some interesting possibilities. In short, the character takes thieves’ cant as a performance based skill. They then roll this skill when attempting to communicate with another thief. Failure means (A) The message is garbled, (B) A third party realizes someone is using thieves’ cant to communicate with another person (C) Both A and B. Much of the point of thieves’ cant is to discretely convey information, and making thieves’ cant a performance based skill means the characters have to work to do that, rather than assume it happens automatically.

What do you think?

 

[lgburton]

I am more or less finished writing the EN World Publishing supplement (for the guild book line) Thieves’ Guild. However, there is one final aspect I am working on that I would like some feed back on.

That subject is thieves’ cant. For those who do not know, thieves’ cant is means of communication employed by thieves to secretly communicate with each other, often in the form of unobtrusive sign language. I have not encountered this feature in any 3.0 or 3.5 book – but then I do not have an exhaustive library.

In any event, I see two ways to work thieves’ cant.

1. Language Skill. This is the simplest method and the least mechanically fussy. Thieves’ cant is just another special language, like the one used by druids. So, to acquire thieves’ cant one simply need to purchase it like any other language.

2. Performance Skill. This is more mechanically complicated, but it also offers some interesting possibilities. In short, the character takes thieves’ cant as a performance based skill. They then roll this skill when attempting to communicate with another thief. Failure means (A) The message is garbled, (B) A third party realizes someone is using thieves’ cant to communicate with another person (C) Both A and B. Much of the point of thieves’ cant is to discretely convey information, and making thieves’ cant a performance based skill means the characters have to work to do that, rather than assume it happens automatically.

What do you think?

well, i'd stick with the first option personally - for a couple reasons

1) simpler mechanics help speed game play, so people won't whine about it every time you use it.

2) other editions had it set as a language.

3) American Sign Language is still english (technically) but it counts as a second language.


what i would do, because i'm a cruel bastard, is have theives' cant (kingdom x) - sort of like the way many people house-rule knowledge local. you know theives' cant for one city, or kingdom, but can't quite use it everywhere.


thoguh the second option does present many opportunities for hilarious roleplaying fun...

 

[Bobitron]

I think making it a skill with checks is a great idea. Perhaps a changing DC depending on the complexity or familiarity with the subject? Making it a language would certainly streamline things, but having that lack of confidence that the message got through perfectly sounds like fun to me.

Something that the thieves do all the time, for example; "Meet at the safehouse" or "Town Guard is on the way" might be a simple DC 10, where something more tricky might be DC 20, like "Prince Galifar's nurse is going to Umberton in the nation of Breelund."

 

[wingsandsword]

Thieves Cant existed as a skill in 3.0 core, we just called it Innuendo. Then they got rid of it and made it a part of Bluff because nobody ever bought Innuendo (unless it was to qualify for a PrC or something).

 

[Napftor]

Why not present both options and let the DM decide which he likes for his/her campaign? For the Perform check, you might want to base a DC on the number of words trying to be conveyed (?).

 

[Slander]

In most fiction I've read, Thieves Cant really is a language of its own, even when it is based on an existing language. I would go with the Language option, but use an Innuendo/Bluff check to get a message across (vs Perform). Since the message is communicated in a different language, someone attempting intercept the message would still have to know the Cant to decipher it.

 

[GMSkarka]

Why not present both options and let the DM decide which he likes for his/her campaign?

Yeah! You know, turn it from a Thieves' cant into a Thieves' CAN!

...



sorry. had to go there.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Thieves Cant existed as a skill in 3.0 core, we just called it Innuendo. Then they got rid of it and made it a part of Bluff because nobody ever bought Innuendo (unless it was to qualify for a PrC or something).

Yep, wingsandsword is correct. Thieves' Cant was the skill Innuendo in 3.0. You'll note 3.5's Bluff skill now has the following:

Delivering a Secret Message: You can use Bluff to get a message across to another character without others understanding it. The DC is 15 for simple messages, or 20 for complex messages, especially those that rely on getting across new information. Failure by 4 or less means you can’t get the message across. Failure by 5 or more means that some false information has been implied or inferred. Anyone listening to the exchange can make a Sense Motive check opposed by the Bluff check you made to transmit in order to intercept your message (see Sense Motive).

 

[Faraer]

Thieves' Cant is covered thoroughly in Gary Gygax's The Canting Crew.

 

[LeapingShark]

I like the Sign Language through Bluff, ala the old Innuendo.

For Thieves Cant, I treat it as a language. There was an old issue of Dragon Magazine that had a full Thieves Cant dictionary in it. I remember a Thief PC learning part of it so that he could speak coded messages to me at the gaming table ("I pick the cleric's pockets!")