Third Party Character Creation iOS App Removed

The d20 Fight Club for D&D 5th Edition iOS app has been removed from the Apple App Store by its creator at the request of WotC. The creator reports that he received a Cease & Desist demand (although it's worth noting that some supposed recent C&Ds appear to have turned out to be amicable requests). This follows on from the removal of the D&D Tools website and the more recent online character generator.

The creator reports that "I received a cease and desist order from Wizards of the Coast. All D&D apps will be removed from the App Store as they weren't compliant with WotC's copyrights and trademarks. Hopefully they'll be back in some form someday. Til then, thanks for all the support."

Nobody has actually shared one of these C&Ds yet, and others have indicated that what they actually received was simply a friendly email asking that they respect WotC's trademarks, so it's not entirely clear what is happening. Hopefully somebody will share one soon!

It does look like this particular app contained text and stat blocks copied directly from the D&D books. Below is the DM version of the app (the companion to the character creation app).

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[pemerton]

It is how their customer base perceives it how they are treating people who have help kept. D&D alive between editions. Especially after 4ED fiasco.

This makes no sense. 4e players aren't some sort of insurgents who tried to destroy D&D. We are D&D players.

Also I assume that most subscribers to DDI are 4e players, so they actually played a rather significant role in "keeping D&D alive between editions".

 

[Icon_Charlie]

The "customer base" who is aware of the issue in the first place is the set of people who are aware of the internet goings-on surrounding D&D; in other words, exactly the sort of person who is on these forums. Posting on here that the problem is about perception is just a cop-out - it's the sort of thing I expect to see in political punditry. You know WotC is in the right, morally and legally. There's no question of that. If the problem is perception among the people who read about D&D news on the internet, this is the place where we correct that perception.

I'll express my opinion in a polite manner dealing with the spheres of influence that I know.


Until then congratulations, welcome to the world of ignore and if you do not like to hear what I have to say in a polite manner then please go ahead and place me on your ignore list.

Bty you are my first.

 

[Icon_Charlie]

This makes no sense. 4e players aren't some sort of insurgents who tried to destroy D&D. We are D&D players.

Also I assume that most subscribers to DDI are 4e players, so they actually played a rather significant role in "keeping D&D alive between editions".

Let explain a little further. 4ED was not a profitable product that Hasbro wanted to be. What I remember in the interwebs are the people that on their own time and effort that (IMHO) kept D&D alive in their web sites, The did this by creating their own created content, when little of anything was coming out of WotCs. I also loved some of their home brew games. They did it because they loved the game and wanted to share with others.

It is those people who should be praised for their efforts. It is because of them that I am still interested in investing and creating content for 5thED. I have the financial luxury that many have here on this site don't have. So if I want to so something on a whim I can. I do like 5thED. The developers did a very good job in streamlining the game and should be commended on it. But I know Hasbro and how it does business, and because of their business ethics I am leaning towards Paizo in creating content. If there is as general license that is reasonable or a OSL is being offered it might get my interest back into 5ED in content creation.

In this day and age we got a lot of talented people and I want them to succeed and created new and different things. I respect them and at times I envy them for they can do things that I can not do. Create something beautiful, written or visual from scratch.

 

[Evenglare]

Why was it getting bad press? Were you there? If so, did you set the people giving it bad press straight? If not, why not?

I was there. I usually listen rather than chime in, but there was nothing to correct about what they were saying. It was all fact about how they have been issuing cease and desist letters with no guidance on what the community should actually be doing to comply with a game that has no actual way of compliance apart from releasing things under the OGL as a back door. There was talk of morning star, all of which had nothing positive to say about either company. There was comparison and contrast on how Wizards is conducting their game and Paizo theirs (which is to be expected in a conversation like this). There was talk about the silence we have gotten from wizards while other companies/games all have a fairly solid schedule, and make sure their relations are good within the community. The general tone I got about Wizards was... for lack of a better word.... oppressive.

The "customer base" who is aware of the issue in the first place is the set of people who are aware of the internet goings-on surrounding D&D; in other words, exactly the sort of person who is on these forums. Posting on here that the problem is about perception is just a cop-out - it's the sort of thing I expect to see in political punditry. You know WotC is in the right, morally and legally. There's no question of that. If the problem is perception among the people who read about D&D news on the internet, this is the place where we correct that perception.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Posting on here about a perception, isn't a cop out. I don't even know what I'm copping out of. The facts are that people ARE talking about this. There ARE casuals who are getting exposed to this information. These people DONT go online to read the boards, they are friends who tag along to the shop and are being introduced to these games. Let me repeat again just to make it doubly clear THEY DO NOT GO ON SITES BECAUSE THEY JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS HOBBY.

I agree with your statement about legality, they can do whatever they want, but things like this spread even though you think it is neatly contained in the internet's online community this is simple 100% untrue, by my evidence of speaking with these people both new and old to the game. It is also true that despite what the actual details are, what is being presented by internet gamers is what is being perceived by new players. Right? Wrong? Doesn't matter at all. Wizards has no PR department, which they should have. Instead we the internet community at this point ARE their PR.

If they want things to change, then wizards need to speak up and let us know what is specifically going on with the game, until then we can only infer for ourselves and draw conclusions however wrong they may be. We simply have no other way to speculate. If your reply is "stop speculation" then this conversation has no point, because it is in humanity's nature to speculate and no amount of force can change that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I was there. I usually listen rather than chime in, but there was nothing to correct about what they were saying.

so they were saying "Someone stole from an RPG company, and they totally asked nice for them to stop and they did... everything worked out with a friendly email..."

It was all fact about how they have been issuing cease and desist letters with no guidance on what the community should actually be doing to comply with a game that has no actual way of compliance apart from releasing things under the OGL as a back door.

LIAR!!!!

there is guidance, you and others just don't like it. It is loud and clear "Wait for our announcements later this year" IS guidance... you just don't want to wait and see like they have reputedly asked... Someone earlier pointed out the SoIaF and G Martian comparison....

You should have pointed out those "fans" were in the wrong and WotC was in the right...

There was talk of morning star, all of which had nothing positive to say about either company.

what in the heck did WotC do wrong there>!>!>
trust the wrong company?

There was comparison and contrast on how Wizards is conducting their game and Paizo theirs (which is to be expected in a conversation like this).

ok, one created the 3 versions of the game, the other put out house rules for one of them...

There was talk about the silence we have gotten from wizards while other companies/games all have a fairly solid schedule, and make sure their relations are good within the community. The general tone I got about Wizards was... for lack of a better word.... oppressive.

WHat the hell? We do know a lot about what is comeing, and we just got a bunch of articles on there website and youtube... they have a slow relese scheduil and said the OGL will be addressed shortly... you are just impatient...

op-pres-sive


[uh-pres-iv]

Spell Syllables

Examples
Word Origin




adjective


1.

burdensome, unjustly harsh, or tyrannical:
"an oppressive king; oppressive laws."


2.

causing discomfort by being excessive, intense, elaborate, etc.:
"oppressive heat."


3.

distressing or grievous:
"oppressive sorrows."

that word is such an over reaction it isn't even funny. there is nothing burdensome, unjustly harsh, or tyrannical: about a friendly email to someone stealing and in one case making money off your product...

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Posting on here about a perception, isn't a cop out. I don't even know what I'm copping out of. The facts are that people ARE talking about this. There ARE casuals who are getting exposed to this information.

the information should be "Don't steal other peoples IP"

These people DONT go online to read the boards, they are friends who tag along to the shop and are being introduced to these games. Let me repeat again just to make it doubly clear THEY DO NOT GO ON SITES BECAUSE THEY JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS HOBBY.

then what do they care? Why should it stop them from enjoying the game because SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL STOPED IT?!?!?!!?

I agree with your statement about legality, they can do whatever they want, but things like this spread even though you think it is neatly contained in the internet's online community this is simple 100% untrue, by my evidence of speaking with these people both new and old to the game. It is also true that despite what the actual details are, what is being presented by internet gamers is what is being perceived by new players. Right? Wrong? Doesn't matter at all. Wizards has no PR department, which they should have. Instead we the internet community at this point ARE their PR.

what should they do different? They told us there is news coming and to wait and see, they only sent out friendly emails, and even then only to people STEALING FROM THEM?!!?!?

If they want things to change, then wizards need to speak up and let us know what is specifically going on with the game,

they have, people just don't like "We are working on an OGL, and will get back to you shortly on it....

until then we can only infer for ourselves and draw conclusions however wrong they may be. We simply have no other way to speculate.

sure we do... we can speculate they are trying to get some electronic stuff up and running, and that STEALING IP is BAD

If your reply is "stop speculation" then this conversation has no point, because it is in humanity's nature to speculate and no amount of force can change that.

how about stop supporting pirates and thieves??!!?

 

[MasterTrancer]

Just to clear my mind: by the same tokens defended in many posts, it's perfectly rightful to download the scanned manuals because WotC hasn't yet announced when they would be selling the 5e PDFs?

Just wondering...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Just to clear my mind: by the same tokens defended in many posts, it's perfectly rightful to download the scanned manuals because WotC hasn't yet announced when they would be selling the 5e PDFs?

Just wondering...

no it isn't... it is a crime... it is moraly arong to take something for free that you know is for sale elsewhere in a different format.

it is no different then me saying "Well if I rob a bank all the poor people have FDIC insurance so will get there money back, so I am morally not hurting anyone and there is no real crime involved...because no one got hurt but the big bad company"

 

[MasterTrancer]

no it isn't... it is a crime... it is moraly arong to take something for free that you know is for sale elsewhere in a different format.

it is no different then me saying "Well if I rob a bank all the poor people have FDIC insurance so will get there money back, so I am morally not hurting anyone and there is no real crime involved...because no one got hurt but the big bad company"

I know you would answer like this, and I'm with you.

I know also that digital download is not the same of thieving solid stuff, but let's face it: we're talking about an hobby with a thin market (as recently discussed in other threads), and the lowering of the sales can lead only to drying it up. I for one would like to have a plethora of tools, possibly low-cost, PDF edited for an A5 format included with the physical copy of each manual and so on, but the only way to have this is probably to have WotC sell D&D back to some small product-oriented company.

Hey, let me throw an idea: with so many people here, a good part of which seem quite apt at running businesses by their own words, why don't we put up a crowdfunding to buy the D&D TTRPG line? I'm serious. Does anyone know how much could it be worth? No, I'm not joking, I'm really wondering.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I know you would answer like this, and I'm with you.

I know also that digital download is not the same of thieving solid stuff, but let's face it: we're talking about an hobby with a thin market (as recently discussed in other threads), and the lowering of the sales can lead only to drying it up. I for one would like to have a plethora of tools, possibly low-cost, PDF edited for an A5 format included with the physical copy of each manual and so on, but the only way to have this is probably to have WotC sell D&D back to some small product-oriented company.

Hey, let me throw an idea: with so many people here, a good part of which seem quite apt at running businesses by their own words, why don't we put up a crowdfunding to buy the D&D TTRPG line? I'm serious. Does anyone know how much could it be worth? No, I'm not joking, I'm really wondering.

Hasbro has a history of not selling IP, but I bet if you wrote up a business plan to lease the rights to just the rpg itself and leave them the rest of the brand for say 10 years, and offered $30,000,000 it would atleast be considered.... in order to get your company off the ground though you would need another atleast half mill...

 

[Morrus]

LIAR!!!!

OK, I think it's time you stepped away from this thread. That's not even close to acceptable here. You're getting far too excited and upset. Take a deep breath, step away, and find and enjoy some threads which don't enrage you. WotC can handle itself, I'm sure.