Third Party Character Creation iOS App Removed

The d20 Fight Club for D&D 5th Edition iOS app has been removed from the Apple App Store by its creator at the request of WotC. The creator reports that he received a Cease & Desist demand (although it's worth noting that some supposed recent C&Ds appear to have turned out to be amicable requests). This follows on from the removal of the D&D Tools website and the more recent online character generator.

The creator reports that "I received a cease and desist order from Wizards of the Coast. All D&D apps will be removed from the App Store as they weren't compliant with WotC's copyrights and trademarks. Hopefully they'll be back in some form someday. Til then, thanks for all the support."

Nobody has actually shared one of these C&Ds yet, and others have indicated that what they actually received was simply a friendly email asking that they respect WotC's trademarks, so it's not entirely clear what is happening. Hopefully somebody will share one soon!

It does look like this particular app contained text and stat blocks copied directly from the D&D books. Below is the DM version of the app (the companion to the character creation app).

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[Kramodlog]

Digital distribution?

Anyway, it seems Trapdoor had a license. I they were just contractors the client can do what it wants with the product. Here Trapdoor had a word in the matter.

 

[Icon_Charlie]

And if the person with the most money is also the person who happens to be right, is it still an injustice?

Because that appears to be the case here - yes, WotC have the big scary lawyers, but they also happen to be the rightful owners of the IP. And it does appear that there has been infringement on their rights.

I have an attorney that deals with my IP's. Do you? Because dealing with Trademarks, Intellectual Properties, Copyrights are not all clear cut cases. That is why I have an IP attorney. You should really look at the IP lawsuits between Samsung and Apple and how long and mirky these court cases are.

Protecting ones IP is not the case here. WotC has every right to protect their IP's The question here is how it is done and to some it is why?
It does not have to be heavy handed. A polite letter is all it takes bringing concerns in question. And if the party in question does not comply then you get heavy handed with them. Then you get nasty.

 

[ren1999]

This is obviously a hot issue. Anyone on this thread who has been saying that digital tools don't matter, or a few of us are the only ones concerned, is wrong.

To these people I say, stop being prideful and stubborn. Listen to the criticism of your fans and make some changes on how you distribute your Cease & Desist orders.

Is someone making money off of your Intellectual Property? C&D them.
Is a fan making no money off of a digital tool that you have no official alternative for? Apologize to them and ask them to publish their digital tool online again to promote your game.

If not, people like me are going to not only go to another game, we are going to actively bad mouth you.

I work with copyright lawyers every day. I teach them English and we were playing 5th Edition. Now we have moved to a d20 Edition which promotes a modified mix of Pathfinder and 13th Age.

I literally have a team of the best copyright lawyers in Japan.
I can prove with email that during the play-testing of 4th Edition, I was among the first to suggest actions and reactions and also among the first to suggest many game elements that 5th edition uses.

I can prove it here and now. Many of you on En World, know just how irritating I was trying to convince 5th Edition that multiple actions was a good idea and I repeatedly published action economy systems here.

I created this digital tool in just a few days.
http://d20game.weebly.com

What is your excuse for not having a digital tool?

 

[Icon_Charlie]

This is obviously a hot issue. Anyone on this thread who has been saying that digital tools don't matter, or a few of us are the only ones concerned, is wrong.

To these people I say, stop being prideful and stubborn. Listen to the criticism of your fans and make some changes on how you distribute your Cease & Desist orders.

Is someone making money off of your Intellectual Property? C&D them.
Is a fan making no money off of a digital tool that you have no official alternative for? Apologize to them and ask them to publish their digital tool online again to promote your game.

If not, people like me are going to not only go to another game, we are going to actively bad mouth you.

I work with copyright lawyers every day. I teach them English and we were playing 5th Edition. Now we have moved to a d20 Edition which promotes a modified mix of Pathfinder and 13th Age.

I literally have a team of the best copyright lawyers in Japan.
I can prove with email that during the play-testing of 4th Edition, I was among the first to suggest actions and reactions and also among the first to suggest many game elements that 5th edition uses.

I can prove it here and now. Many of you on En World, know just how irritating I was trying to convince 5th Edition that multiple actions was a good idea and I repeatedly published action economy systems here.

I created this digital tool in just a few days.
http://d20game.weebly.com

What is your excuse for not having a digital tool?

Yea this guy has more or less the correct way to look at how this should go down. Gave him xp for it. Might have to talk to him about certain things as well.

Which is -why- I am here on this site. To decide whether to create content or not. Finances are not the problem. The problem is the logistics of it all and do I really want to lock horns with certain companies/persons in the near future. So it is data gathering 101 and seeing how things progress in the near future are my goals.

 

[pemerton]

dealing with Trademarks, Intellectual Properties, Copyrights are not all clear cut cases. That is why I have an IP attorney. You should really look at the IP lawsuits between Samsung and Apple and how long and mirky these court cases are.

Protecting ones IP is not the case here. WotC has every right to protect their IP's The question here is how it is done and to some it is why?
It does not have to be heavy handed. A polite letter is all it takes bringing concerns in question.

Two things.

First, just because some situations are not clear doesn't mean that none are. If the tool in question is reproducing text from WotC's books or PDFs, that is a breach of copyright. It is possibly also a breach of contract, because in downloading material from the WotC website there is at least an argument that a user had agreed to the Terms of Use, which include (in clause 6) terms and conditions on which use of Wizards' IP is granted.

Second, how do you know that the message in this case was heavy handed rather than a polite letter? Or that, if it was a formal request to cease and desist, that there was not a polite letter that preceded it?

 

[Icon_Charlie]

Two things.

First, just because some situations are not clear doesn't mean that none are. If the tool in question is reproducing text from WotC's books or PDFs, that is a breach of copyright. It is possibly also a breach of contract, because in downloading material from the WotC website there is at least an argument that a user had agreed to the Terms of Use, which include (in clause 6) terms and conditions on which use of Wizards' IP is granted.

Second, how do you know that the message in this case was heavy handed rather than a polite letter? Or that, if it was a formal request to cease and desist, that there was not a polite letter that preceded it?

They only person so far that has got it is ren1999.

Since some of you want to argue for argument's sake go ahead and knock yourself.

I can clearly see what I don't to see with some of you here.

Done posting on this topic and will not reply back to this topic.

 

[Mistwell]

This is obviously a hot issue. Anyone on this thread who has been saying that digital tools don't matter, or a few of us are the only ones concerned, is wrong.

Did you just argue "If people reply about general legal issues and WOTC, then they specifically think this issue of digital tools is important to them, and anyone who disagrees is wrong"?

Looked that way. In which case, that's terrible logic. I could post a thread about Orc & Pie and get lots and lots of replies, and nobody would actually care about it. I could post ANY topic about the internal workings of WOTC, down to the price of their vending machine stuff and what's in those machines, and get lots of replies. Being a hot issue is not the same as proof people care about part of that issue for real - it just means they like to talk about it (because it's fun).

To these people I say, stop being prideful and stubborn.

Doctor, heal thyself. Oh, and stop being so damn insulting to your peers.

 

[Shasarak]

I love Orc and Pie but I dont think I could eat a whole one.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Is a fan making no money off of a digital tool that you have no official alternative for? Apologize to them and ask them to publish their digital tool online again to promote your game.

The only way I would advise a client of mine to do that is if there was an explicit license granted to do that (possibly with a steep discount to just a nominal fee) coupled with a NDA specifically covering terms of the deal.

Profit doesn't matter.

Not charging for the copies does not automatically make the copying permissible.
http://sites.lib.byu.edu/copyright/about-copyright/basics/

By granting the discounted license, you protect your rights and mitigate "infringement creep".

Copyright protection is effectively never lost, unless explicitly given away or the copyright has expired. However, if you do not actively defend your copyright, there may be broader unauthorized uses than you would like. It is a good idea to pursue enforcement actions as soon as you discover misuse of your copyright protected material.
http://sites.lib.byu.edu/copyright/about-copyright/basics/

 

[Rune]

I love Orc and Pie but I dont think I could eat a whole one.

Mmmm. Orca pie.