this bard modification OK?

[VoiceOfReason?]

if he wants to dabble, maybe something like track, slowfall, evasion, or a progressive ability (maybe even some bardic 'music' abilities in the form of legends, stories, and chants).
Trading class abilities for feats looks like a good idea at first, and works well for fighters and wizards, but only because they have a strong backbone to rest on otherwise, bards really don't; versatility only goes so far in a group full of specialists.

 

[DreamChaser]

Uhhmm ... Well then.
I guess we won't be -- sheesh, how do I say this? -- we won't be applying for seats at your gaming table.

Thanks for clearing that up. :\ No non-singing bards. Gotcha.

That's right. No alternate bards that toss out the flavor and basis of the class, keep the versatility, and call it good to go.

I do, however, love the suggestions by Nifft above. Very creative and interesting.

And Driddle: I'll toss out the pile of applications I have from you and your friends then.

DC

 

[Darkness]

That's right. No alternate bards that toss out the flavor and basis of the class, keep the versatility, and call it good to go.

You would have hated the 2e complete bard's handbook.

I liked it, though.

 

[Driddle]

re underpowered issue, a tangent: It's a false assumption that every character must "shine" at some clearly defined task or another. For this guy (and a couple others I've known; we tend to hang together, I guess) it's satisfying to know he can pick up slack for the others, that he can clean up the edges of a mess, that he can be supportive of his friends when *they* do the shining thing. And I can appreciate that myself. I get enough attention during the day; I don't need to be Joe Expert during a game.

 

[Nifft]

Actually, the 'helping others shine' bit is really what Bardic Music is all about, and it's also what IMHO the Bard class is all about. This is why I'm hesitant to throw out the mechanics of Bardic Music -- it's a VERY strong and VERY versatile ability set, and it's in no way compensated by having a Familiar.

At high levels, Countersong is the only way to negate Blasphemy. Think about that. It's a very strong ability.

Anyway. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

-- N

 

[Driddle]

Heh. Just had an idea:
Bard as psychologist or counselor. Keep the "music" abilities the same, but change the descriptions so that they represent helpful insights and esteem-boosters.
Or even worse, pyramid sales schemers...

 

[der_kluge]

You might take a look at the Cloistered Cleric in UA. It's really close to a Bard, has the Bardic Lore ability, but has more scholarly type combat bonuses. Lots of extra skill points. It's more of a scholarly cleric. Still has clerical spell progression. It might work, unless he's wanting arcane spells, of course.

 

[DreamChaser]

You would have hated the 2e complete bard's handbook.

I liked it, though.

I actually loved it. Of course 2e was back before any theme or role had really been well defined for the bard (they were still coming out of the fighter/rogue/druid mix of 1e) so a book that gave a series of (admiittedly overpowerd) flavors for the bard was excellent.

Now, in 3.x, the bard has a defined role. He is the support character and diplomat. His bardic music, as Nifft has said, is his lynchpin "help others" ability.

DC

 

[Ace]

Player wants to tweek the bard class to fit his concept. Everything remains the same except for the gooey middle bits (the special abilities that fill out the middle of the class progression chart):

* He wants to keep the lore knowledge ability.
* He wants to lose all the musical abilities, and in exchange gain a familiar at 1st level and a bonus feat at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels.
* He wants to call himself a "Lorist" instead of a bard.

Sound balanced to you?

I agree with the pack that this is a trifle weak but do-able -- If you think a tad more power is needed I might suggest "Spell Lore" be gained at 4,8,16,16,20 -- in place of a spell swap let the Lorist pick up an additional spell either from any list (pretty strong) or from the Sor/Wiz list --

Since he is limited to 6th level spells this shouldn't be too strong

 

[Nifft]

That's a very interesting idea. Allow him to take spells (up to 6th level) from ANY spell list, and allow him to consider all spells (up to 6th level) on his spell list for the purpose of using items.

Hmmm....

Might just be balanced with losing the music.

-- N