"THIS does only 1d4 damage?!"
- Thread starter Olidammara
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Chimera
First Post
The alternative, which might be more, less or equally acceptable, but which has entirely different gaming consequences; would be to keep the HP the same, but give higher level characters more AC. They're simply harder to hit. Trained Fighters and Monks are the best example I can think of. Much of their training is in how to AVOID being hit.
Although there is something to be said for the ability to sustain more damage at higher levels. Someone with a great deal of training and will to live might take a knife to the gut and come through it relatively ok. But many people would pass out from the pain or shock and/or drop dead immediately.
I think I'd rather stay with the Hit Point model, and consider them as mostly luck, skill and the ability to minimize, absorb or avoid damage. Because at some point, it runs out. Just like Hit Points.
Although there is something to be said for the ability to sustain more damage at higher levels. Someone with a great deal of training and will to live might take a knife to the gut and come through it relatively ok. But many people would pass out from the pain or shock and/or drop dead immediately.
I think I'd rather stay with the Hit Point model, and consider them as mostly luck, skill and the ability to minimize, absorb or avoid damage. Because at some point, it runs out. Just like Hit Points.
IceBear
Explorer
Yup, in my games if you have 6 hitpoints and are stabbed by a dagger for 4 points of damage you "Are stabbed viciously in the side and the wound is gushing blood". If you have 60 hitpoints and hit similarly you "Manage to avoid most of the blow with a skillful parry, but it does manage to open a small gash in the back of your hand."
IceBear
IceBear
Desdichado
Hero
Icebear, that's how I do it as well. HP loss is relative: at low levels a hit point loss is a horrible gaping wound. At higher levels the same hit point loss is a simple scratch.
Bob Aberton
First Post
Yeah...
Look at it this way: If Evander Holyfield gave you a roundhouse to the jaw, would you be in serious trouble? I know I would. I would probably end up with a broken jaw and a concussion - at least.
Now, if Evander Holyfield punched Mike Tyson in the jaw, would he shrug it off? No tonly would he shrug it off, but he would then bite Holyfied's ear off.
So, in conclusion, a punch that would floor your average Joe (equal to a 1st level Commoner) would only make Mike Tyson (probably a high-level Fighter) angry.
Some might say that with weapons it would be different. I dont think so.
Ok, lets compare Joe Average(who's never been stuck with anything bigger than a sewing needle) with a toughened brawler who's been stabbed a dozen times.
Joe gets stuck in the arm. He immediately passes out from the pain and shock. Maybe he dies of blood loss while he's unconscious.
Brawler gets stuck in the arm. He has been stabbed before and knows what it feels like. He does not pass out from pain and shock. He's used to the pain and the blood, so he just grits his teeth, yanks the knife out of his arm, and rips into his assailant.
Once again, Joe is a 1st level Commoner, the brawler is a high-level fighter.
Conclusion: What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Someone who has not experienced a lot will not be as tough as someone who has.
That's my take on HPs
Look at it this way: If Evander Holyfield gave you a roundhouse to the jaw, would you be in serious trouble? I know I would. I would probably end up with a broken jaw and a concussion - at least.
Now, if Evander Holyfield punched Mike Tyson in the jaw, would he shrug it off? No tonly would he shrug it off, but he would then bite Holyfied's ear off.
So, in conclusion, a punch that would floor your average Joe (equal to a 1st level Commoner) would only make Mike Tyson (probably a high-level Fighter) angry.
Some might say that with weapons it would be different. I dont think so.
Ok, lets compare Joe Average(who's never been stuck with anything bigger than a sewing needle) with a toughened brawler who's been stabbed a dozen times.
Joe gets stuck in the arm. He immediately passes out from the pain and shock. Maybe he dies of blood loss while he's unconscious.
Brawler gets stuck in the arm. He has been stabbed before and knows what it feels like. He does not pass out from pain and shock. He's used to the pain and the blood, so he just grits his teeth, yanks the knife out of his arm, and rips into his assailant.
Once again, Joe is a 1st level Commoner, the brawler is a high-level fighter.
Conclusion: What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Someone who has not experienced a lot will not be as tough as someone who has.
That's my take on HPs
Patrick-S&S
First Post
What happens then when someone stabs Tyson in the back with a knife? Or if he is caught off guard and stabbed straight on? How do you feel the HPs would work in such situations? I mean Tyson would bleed as much as I would... 
Breakstone
First Post
Bob- that's exactly how I would describe it.
Pat- In D&D terms (ie NOT REAL LIFE) Mike would have been caught flat footed. Probably a sneak attack by the assailant, too. If the attacker rolled high damage, he stabbed Mike pretty darn-tootin' good. Of course, Mike would bleed, but he's used to pain. He can handle it. And he has all those Dude Points from his years of boxing.
Pat- In D&D terms (ie NOT REAL LIFE) Mike would have been caught flat footed. Probably a sneak attack by the assailant, too. If the attacker rolled high damage, he stabbed Mike pretty darn-tootin' good. Of course, Mike would bleed, but he's used to pain. He can handle it. And he has all those Dude Points from his years of boxing.
Zerovoid
First Post
Bob Aberton said:
This logic only makes sense for wounds below a certain degree. More muscle mass could help soften blows somewhat, and enable you to retain functionality in spite of a wound. A more effecient cardiovascular system would help you cope with massive blood loss, and there's certainly quite a bit to be said for remaining conscious in spite of pain. Certainly this is the original justification for hit points: "You've been through alot, so now you're really tough, and things don't hurt you as much." This made sense when I was 12 and first started playing DnD, and didn't really think about it much. Its the way I play it in my games, even though it doesn't really make sense. This is what the system really is. The stuff in the current edition of the PHB was made up as a justification later.
Just to muddy the waters a little though, isn't the reason Mike Tyson can be me up mostly a matter that he has way more strength and constitution than me?
And also, a bullet to the brain is a bullet to the brain. Same with most massive internal injuries. Past a certiain point, nobody can shrug it off.
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Thistleknot
First Post
I always thought of the D&D Hit Point system like this:
Hit Points gained in level represent your knowledge gained in how to avoid cuts, stabs, slashes, bites, fireballs, ect. At low levels you aren't quite as good at dodging daggers, so they slash at more sensitive parts of your body.
Those HP you get from your Constitution modifier, are how tough your actual body is, from running around and adventuring in dungeons and stuff.
Commoners don't do a whole lot of adventuring and stuff, and probably don't have a positive constitution modifier, so they don't always have the bodily stamina to withstand blows or experience to avoid blows like adventurers do. That's why the average commoner folds like a cheap lawn chair when he gets hit by a dagger. They don't have the knowledge to divert to a non-vital area and they don't have the physical toughness to take the blow if they can't.
A fighter has the knowledge to parry it to a non-vital area, and the physical stamina to take the blow, should he not be able to divert the blow.
For my look at things, there are designations within the abstract idea of HP. There are the "Physical Body" HP gained from the Constitution modifier and there are the "Dodge and Parry" HP gained with your experience level.
Just a thought, albeit probably an odd one.
Hit Points gained in level represent your knowledge gained in how to avoid cuts, stabs, slashes, bites, fireballs, ect. At low levels you aren't quite as good at dodging daggers, so they slash at more sensitive parts of your body.
Those HP you get from your Constitution modifier, are how tough your actual body is, from running around and adventuring in dungeons and stuff.
Commoners don't do a whole lot of adventuring and stuff, and probably don't have a positive constitution modifier, so they don't always have the bodily stamina to withstand blows or experience to avoid blows like adventurers do. That's why the average commoner folds like a cheap lawn chair when he gets hit by a dagger. They don't have the knowledge to divert to a non-vital area and they don't have the physical toughness to take the blow if they can't.
A fighter has the knowledge to parry it to a non-vital area, and the physical stamina to take the blow, should he not be able to divert the blow.
For my look at things, there are designations within the abstract idea of HP. There are the "Physical Body" HP gained from the Constitution modifier and there are the "Dodge and Parry" HP gained with your experience level.
Just a thought, albeit probably an odd one.
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