D&D 5E This Game is Deadly

[Blackbrrd]

Just passing on what I've heard from wizards. They say level 3 is the old level 1.

They are? Where?

I do know that level 1 of 4e more or less resembles level 3 in 5e, but I haven't seen what you are saying here...

 

[Nine Hands]

Damn Right Its Deadly

I ran the Starter Set twice. The first time with 5 characters, they did well and I did not kill anyone.

Second time, I killed the Cleric when he went into the woods by himself and two goblins hid and shot him to death. He died of failed death saves.

Then in the final battle, King Klarg rolled a natural 20, killing the fighter outright. On his next turn, he ran over to the Wizard, rolled another natural 20 and killed the Wizard outright. The Rogue went down soon after. Only the archer fighter survived long enough to kill King Klarg but not in time to save the poor rogue.

So I had an 80% TPK on the second try.

The Cleric's player was used to 4E so he thought that his high AC was going to be enough to offset the small damage the goblins could do. It was just a tactical mistake on his part.

 

[am181d]

They are? Where?

I do know that level 1 of 4e more or less resembles level 3 in 5e, but I haven't seen what you are saying here...

It was a concept they discussed during the development process, but it hasn't been mentioned recently -- meaning we don't know if that concept survived into the finished game.

To the larger point: The Death Save rule means that most characters shouldn't die in combat unless there's a TPK (because even if the cleric drops first, the rest of the party has at least three rounds to stabilize her), and the KO rules mean that DMs are free to rule that the TPK = total party capture.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It was a concept they discussed during the development process, but it hasn't been mentioned recently -- meaning we don't know if that concept survived into the finished game.

To the larger point: The Death Save rule means that most characters shouldn't die in combat unless there's a TPK (because even if the cleric drops first, the rest of the party has at least three rounds to stabilize her), and the KO rules mean that DMs are free to rule that the TPK = total party capture.

actually, with a natural one accounting for 2 failed saves, it isn´t given that you have 3 rounds to save someone. It is pretty thrilling.
I have established a houserule though: You can go to negative hp of your max hp or your constitution score, whichever is higher. So the risk of death by chance, from full hp to death is lessened.

I have a different houserule in mind: You may spend your hitdice to reduce possibly lethal damage. So save up some HD to reduce instant death chances.

 

[Evenglare]

It was a concept they discussed during the development process, but it hasn't been mentioned recently -- meaning we don't know if that concept survived into the finished game.

To the larger point: The Death Save rule means that most characters shouldn't die in combat unless there's a TPK (because even if the cleric drops first, the rest of the party has at least three rounds to stabilize her), and the KO rules mean that DMs are free to rule that the TPK = total party capture.

Pretty much this. But I would think it is still valid because at level 3 is usually when you pick your subclass and you are a fully realized class. Level 1 and 2, to me, seem to be gradually introducing fundamental concepts of your class. But I'd assume they mean at level 3 you are like a level 1 4e character, because level 1 in 5e roughly feels like a level 1 3e character... man I don't know lol.

 

[TerraDave]

It was a concept they discussed during the development process, but it hasn't been mentioned recently -- meaning we don't know if that concept survived into the finished game.

To the larger point: The Death Save rule means that most characters shouldn't die in combat unless there's a TPK (because even if the cleric drops first, the rest of the party has at least three rounds to stabilize her), and the KO rules mean that DMs are free to rule that the TPK = total party capture.

They do phase in benefits over those starting levels--as they should--but 1st level characters aren't that weak compared to past editions. I think they have an edge over 3E and earlier. Maybe compared to 4E--though both starting adventures for it also produced their share of TPKs.

Also, totally looking forward to the first 1 on a death save. That will be awesome.

 

[Agamon]

In my experience, smart players that don't blindly charge in and that are not on the very wrong end of variance do fine. Dumb, unlucky players will lose PCs.

Darwin would have been a D&D player.

 

[Khoram]

They do phase in benefits over those starting levels--as they should--but 1st level characters aren't that weak compared to past editions. I think they have an edge over 3E and earlier. Maybe compared to 4E--though both starting adventures for it also produced their share of TPKs.

I think you're right, the 1st level characters aren't that weak. The problem is the bugbear included in the starting area is tough. He has 27 hp, and the Brute and Surprise Attack abilities. If you take the standard damage and he doesn't surprise attack, that's still 11 damage, which is enough to down a rogue, wizard, and likely a cleric in one hit.

Dying to goblins because you went off into the woods by yourself is one thing. Dying in one hit from full health to the leader in the very first 4 room area through no fault of your own can be a tough pill to swallow. Were bugbears always this tough? I don't recall. Looks like according to the SRD version, they were 16 hp, 1d8+2 damage critters. They got massively buffed for 5E I guess!

 

[ren1999]

Dying to goblins because you went off into the woods by yourself is one thing. Dying in one hit from full health to the leader in the very first 4 room area through no fault of your own can be a tough pill to swallow. Were bugbears always this tough? I don't recall. Looks like according to the SRD version, they were 16 hp, 1d8+2 damage critters. They got massively buffed for 5E I guess!

We are in agreement.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

I can't wait to give it a try. At low levels this looks like it could possibly be deadlier than TSR era D&D. Not because of the PC or monster stats, but because of the reward system.

A 1st level TSR D&D party could do their best to avoid confrontations while trying to collect enough treasure to level up. A 5E party really needs to face those confrontations to earn their XP. So what you have is neophyte PC fragility combined with an XP system that (largely) only rewards defeating enemies.

Sounds deadly to me.

In trying to capture that old school feel, I am toying with the idea of going with treasure = XP and possibly reducing monster XP by a factor of anywhere from 2 to 10.