D&D 4E This isn't my 4e - I like it!

[Underman]

No you weren't. You were grafting something on to it.

If you're going to define my own motives, the least you could do is elaborate your accusations, instead of these incredibly unhelpful one liners.

You mean the strand for which you mentioned not one single example of a game that fitted. That is the problem.

It wasn't the focus of my point, which was about 'Dragons', so no, I did not provide an example. (I assumed Dungeons & Dungeons is 1e gamist 'tomb of horror's style play, for example, but I hate applying such labels because people seem to like pouncing on such such things.)

The fact that I didn't mention an example doesn't change the fact that your previous claim was flatly wrong, plain as "Dungeons and Dungeons". It was there: two (not 'literally' one) strands not under the 'Dragons AND Dungeons'. Your assumption that I singled out 4E was wrong. Period.

I still don't understand what seems to so upsetting (other than the possibility that you misread my post and refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt). I feel like the target of some knee jerk reaction.

 

[Lanefan]

Despite the 12+ xp that the OP rec'd, it still bugs me. I think there are at least 3 major strands:
Dragons & Dragons
Dragons & Dungeons
Dungeons & Dungeons

...

Dragons & Dragons = let's pretend we are heroes
Dragons & Dungeons = let's pretend we can be heroes

Dungeons & Dungeons - let's pretend we're just doing whatever it takes to survive to the next day; and if 'whatever it takes' includes killing some beasts and rescuing a princess or two, only then will they call us heroes.

Lan-"yeah we could be heroes, just for one day"-efan

 

[Neonchameleon]

If you're going to define my own motives, the least you could do is elaborate your accusations, instead of these incredibly unhelpful one liners.

It wasn't the focus of my point, which was about 'Dragons', so no, I did not provide an example. (I assumed Dungeons & Dungeons is 1e gamist 'tomb of horror's style play, for example, but I hate applying such labels because people seem to like pouncing on such such things.)

Ah, OK. Then you just missed the point of the rhetoric. Fair enough. And added an extra layer that didn't need to be added - games lean a certain way - but you can absolutely drift them. So the 4thCore players are using a dragons-heavy game for dungeons play. And the 1e/Dragonlance a dungeons heavy game for dragons play. Which doesn't actually add anything.

The fact that I didn't mention an example doesn't change the fact that your previous claim was flatly wrong, plain as "Dungeons and Dungeons". It was there: two (not 'literally' one) strands not under the 'Dragons AND Dungeons'. Your assumption that I singled out 4E was wrong. Period.

But you did single out 4e. You might not have meant to. But it was quite specifically singled out as the only game you mentioned that wasn't Dragons and Dungeons in your terminology.

I still don't understand what seems to so upsetting (other than the possibility that you misread my post and refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt). I feel like the target of some knee jerk reaction.

That the claim that 4e isn't D&D is one that needs to die if there is to be any constructive dialogue. Or 4e is an MMO or a boardgame.

 

[Underman]

And added an extra layer that didn't need to be added. So the 4thCore players are using a dragons-heavy game for dungeons play. And the 1e/Dragonlance a dungeons heavy game for dragons play. Which doesn't actually add anything.

It adds something for me. Stalemate.

But you did single out 4e. You might not have meant to. But it was quite specifically singled out as the only game you mentioned that wasn't Dragons and Dungeons in your terminology.

Honestly, in my head, I've singled you out as the poster boy for 4E victim complex. There, I said it. I haven't interacted with anyone else on this forum who gave me the same impression. Which really makes it impossible to reconcile with you in any way, on top of the already disparate playstyles.

That the claim that 4e isn't D&D is one that needs to die if there is to be any constructive dialogue. Or 4e is an MMO or a boardgame.

Yes that does needs to die. Nothing to do with me though.