I bet if you just played a session or two with 5e, you'd be happier with it. You can't judge the game just by reading the rules, especially when we haven't even seen the complete set.
D&D 4E This isn't my 4e - I like it!
- Thread starter Neonchameleon
- Start date
thecasualoblivion
First Post
I ran two sessions with the first playtest, and played one. Most of my consternation right now is seeing everything that bothered me the first time fully intact. Boring, spammy mundanity.
Lwaxy
Cute but dangerous
OK, you do not like where 5e is going. We get it. It's no reason to threadcrap several threads.
Either offer some constructive criticism or don't post.
Thanks.
Great thread; the initial post does a good job of laying out the issues in a dispassionate way.
As a "Dragons" player, the current playtest looks way too random to interest me. I'd be interested in a faster, more story-oriented "Dragons" campaign (with less on the detailed grid-mechanics), but it doesn't look like this is it (yet).
As a "Dragons" player, the current playtest looks way too random to interest me. I'd be interested in a faster, more story-oriented "Dragons" campaign (with less on the detailed grid-mechanics), but it doesn't look like this is it (yet).
The new fighter looks pretty good to me.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
I don't believe that DDN should continue to play the "Make the game X because I already have Y." game.
We all know the game is Dungeons AND Dragons, and while editions prior may have leaned more towards Dungeons or Dragons, I feel that this constant see-sawing, pendulum-swinging action(also with kung-fu grip!) is what has largely given rise to the great divisions between editions and players.
IMO: DDN should aim for both styles of play, but as you mention with Dark Sun, playing Dragons may require someone to start at above-average.
I just ran a one-shot encounter with a friend of mine last night, he needs to kill a young red dragon for some PRC in 3.5, we skipped the grid and just threw some dice at each other, and though he game close, the dragon ripped him to shreds at the last moment.
This was both Dungeons AND Dragons. Combat was quick(the whole thing took us maybe 5 rounds and 10 minutes), but it was epic. He crit with a weapon of impact and tore off almost 70% of the dragon's health in round, but as he got low on health he tried to run away. A potion of fire resistence saved him from the dragon's breath weapon, but once he stopped to try and pummel the dragon the dragon got it's full-attack and crit with a tail attack, squashing my poor friend.
It was fun, it was exciting, it was fast, and most of all, it was epic....
but... he was level 8.
I think D&D is a big game, and it has plenty of room for Dungeons and Dragons, however, IMO: in the early levels, level 1-6ish the expectation should be mostly limited to Dungeon play, while the later game, and indeed most of the game beyond 8th level, should revolve around Dragons play. Epic battles, world-altering events, monstrous creatures, the things that truly define a fantastical world and the people within it. That doesn't mean Dragons play can't be fast, as per my example, epic battles can often be very quick and easy to run.
I don't think that DDN should strive for Dungeons at the expense of Dragons, nor Dragons at the expense of Dungeons. Because alone, neither Dungeons nor Dragons individually are games I want to play.
We all know the game is Dungeons AND Dragons, and while editions prior may have leaned more towards Dungeons or Dragons, I feel that this constant see-sawing, pendulum-swinging action(also with kung-fu grip!) is what has largely given rise to the great divisions between editions and players.
IMO: DDN should aim for both styles of play, but as you mention with Dark Sun, playing Dragons may require someone to start at above-average.
I just ran a one-shot encounter with a friend of mine last night, he needs to kill a young red dragon for some PRC in 3.5, we skipped the grid and just threw some dice at each other, and though he game close, the dragon ripped him to shreds at the last moment.
This was both Dungeons AND Dragons. Combat was quick(the whole thing took us maybe 5 rounds and 10 minutes), but it was epic. He crit with a weapon of impact and tore off almost 70% of the dragon's health in round, but as he got low on health he tried to run away. A potion of fire resistence saved him from the dragon's breath weapon, but once he stopped to try and pummel the dragon the dragon got it's full-attack and crit with a tail attack, squashing my poor friend.
It was fun, it was exciting, it was fast, and most of all, it was epic....
but... he was level 8.
I think D&D is a big game, and it has plenty of room for Dungeons and Dragons, however, IMO: in the early levels, level 1-6ish the expectation should be mostly limited to Dungeon play, while the later game, and indeed most of the game beyond 8th level, should revolve around Dragons play. Epic battles, world-altering events, monstrous creatures, the things that truly define a fantastical world and the people within it. That doesn't mean Dragons play can't be fast, as per my example, epic battles can often be very quick and easy to run.
I don't think that DDN should strive for Dungeons at the expense of Dragons, nor Dragons at the expense of Dungeons. Because alone, neither Dungeons nor Dragons individually are games I want to play.
Raith5
Adventurer
I have no doubt they are targeting (and hitting) the dungeon aspect. The question I have is how can they use this base to also reach the dragon aspect? At some point relatively soon WOTC is going to have to show how this could be possible for me to be really interested in DDN a system to allow a full fledged campaign rather than a straightforward dungeon crawl.
Aenghus
Explorer
I prefer the dragon style of game the OP posits, and find the dungeon style of play doesn't suit me for campaigns any more, though one-off games would be OK. Given this I've collected players who suit my style and aren't interested in high-fatality-rate by-the-numbers dungeon crawling.
I suppose it's unsurprising that I found the playtest difficult to run, as in it's current incarnation it supports dungeon style play rather than dragon style play.
I think both styles of play should be catered to at every level though, even if it requires modules to do.
I suppose it's unsurprising that I found the playtest difficult to run, as in it's current incarnation it supports dungeon style play rather than dragon style play.
I think both styles of play should be catered to at every level though, even if it requires modules to do.
Mercule
Adventurer
That was the sales pitch for 4e, so there's irony in a 4e fan panning 5e after reading an incomplete set of rules.
