this may possibly come back to bite me...

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Lord Phoenix

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so ive been trying to come up with ways that i could possibly create my own rituals for 4th ed d&d and have gotten some good info/advise. the reasoning behind all my questing/research is thus: in 3rd edition one of my favorite characters(who is of epic level) was granted a wish at the end of an adventure, and that wish resulted in her becoming a great wyrm silver dragon. so now my group is playing 4th ed and we're rewriting some of our previous characters so im looking for a way for my character to again become a dragon. so anyone willing to help me out with this matter would be greatly appreciated!
 

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What level? I'd expect that one could manage a Great Wyrm Dragon PC (without making the PC a solo monster, of course--but huge size, flight, encounter fire breath) using epic destiny or maybe ED + PP.

But Rituals don't get to do that except mabye a ritual that lets you retrain mid-level (that seems totally kosher) as a "transformation". Or, for that matter, a Rare Epic Scroll of Wish, which would be something like this:

Wish
Level 25 Ritual
Time: 10 minutes
Skill: Arcana
Special: This ritual is not possible to master. Instead, it can only be cast directly from scrolls--which are themselves rare magical items that can only be found, not bought.

When you cast this ritual, state a wish in twenty five words or less. The result can do anything -- except that it may not break the experience or treasure aquisition rules. Thus, you can wish yourself from a 25th level wizard to a 25th level fighter (with appropraite magic items and powers, the former likely of the GM's choice given the 25 word limit), but you may not wish yourself from a 25th level wizard to a 29th level fighter. Similarly, you can wish for an item -- but only one of value no greater than that of a level 25 consumable item. You may also wish for affects in the world, but effect may not be greater than defeating an equivalent level encounter. Beyond that, any effect that the GM agrees fits within these guidelines is possible--but if you exceed them, beware; the effect may still take place, but in a fashion as harmful to you as possible as the ritual backlashes.

Something like that.
 

so ive been trying to come up with ways that i could possibly create my own rituals for 4th ed d&d and have gotten some good info/advise. the reasoning behind all my questing/research is thus: in 3rd edition one of my favorite characters(who is of epic level) was granted a wish at the end of an adventure, and that wish resulted in her becoming a great wyrm silver dragon. so now my group is playing 4th ed and we're rewriting some of our previous characters so im looking for a way for my character to again become a dragon. so anyone willing to help me out with this matter would be greatly appreciated!

Well, that looks more like an epic destiny than a ritual.
 


As I said above, it's definitely an Epic Destiny (though I could see a ritual used to "retrain" to said epic destiny -- or just have it be a story approach). I mean, to make a dragon, you need: a "breath" weapon, flight, larger than normal size and reach, and probably claw and/or bite attacks. Those aren't things you get out of a ritual -- or even out of a single power; those are class features.

To make a new one...base it on an existing ED and tweak as necessary. You'll notice, if you're honest with yourself, that you can't really justify all of that with one epic destiny--probably, so if you really want to be a dragon all the time (rather than, say, a silver dragon who is in human form most of the time and only takes dragon shape for emergencies), you might need to use a custom paragon path, a custom epic destiny -- even a custom multiclass tree to house all the bits that make up "I'm a dragon".

Actually, there -is- an epic destiny already that lets you turn into a dragon -- albeit only twice per day -- Look up Draconic Incarnation in Dragon 388! If you want the easy path--you're a silver dragon, but for your own reasons choose not to take draconic form except when it's urgent -- thus when you "die" you switch to your dragon form and finish the battle that way (working with your GM you might want to trade out insubstantial/phasing on the Dragon Spirit 24th level "once per day, when you die become a dragon and finish the fight that way" feature for something close to the 30th level form), and if you're 30th level you can once per day choose that a fight is important enough to turn into a dragon without "dying" first, gaining huge size, flight, reach, and an at-will breath weapon. Obviously, swap fire for cold, but that's a trivial swap.
 

Look up the Sorcerer Kings epic path in Dark Sun. You can just adapt that to becoming a silver dragon.
 

I wouldn't use the Ritual system per se.

But... using a MacGuffin ritual-like story advancement to then justify your 21st level gain and taking an Epic Destiny which makes you a dragon at the end of it?

Yeah. Totally works.

Don't forget too, you don't even have to do it -at- 21st level. There's no requirement to take an Epic Destiny until you're good and ready. EDs are not like Classes or Paragon Paths in that sense... you take it only when you're ready for your destiny, not when you reach epic level.
 

im having a hard time chosing an epic destiny, i can decide if a wanna go with archmage or if wanna go with magister. i'd like to hear some opinions if anyones in a sharing mood! -Lord Phoenix
 

I notice that you are fairly new, and it is great to have you on board at ENworld. There are a few tips I'd like to share with you:

1. Please avoid starting a new thread on what is pretty much the same topic you already started a couple of days ago here http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/294816-im-need-some-help.html (I'll close this thread so that discussions can continue in the other thread)

2. Please give a thread a useful name - like "How do I create new rituals?" rather than a name which isn't meaningful. People will be better able to help you with your questions in those cases. You might like to make this change yourself.

3. Questions which are about rules for something not covered in the core books are probably better asked in the "4e house rules" forum - I'll move the other thread over to there now.

Thanks
 

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