thoughts about 3.5e

  • Thread starter Thread starter shurai
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Wattshumphrey, could you do one for me though, please? When July comes around, could you please download the changes to the SRD for free and see whether you want to make that purchase or not? I suggest that if you do decide to support wizards in this way, it will make your decision a lot easier.
 

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Henry said:
Wattshumphrey, could you do one for me though, please? When July comes around, could you please download the changes to the SRD for free and see whether you want to make that purchase or not? I suggest that if you do decide to support wizards in this way, it will make your decision a lot easier.

I certainly plan on it :). Though for me the issue is more if I'll continue playing and if I want the aesthetics of it than if I believe that Wotc is releasing a quality product. I have no doubt that the new version will fix problems that I had not even realized were there :)
 

Piratecat said:

Ironically enough, WotC IS making all of the 3.5 information available for free through the SRD. Don't want to buy it? Then use the SRD or the collection of changes that people here will no doubt compile. A lot of the complaining from folks who don't want to spend the money just doesn't make sense to me, considering this fact.

The SRD will contain the bare bones of the changes so that designers like myself can use the new corebooks. Much of the new content will be clarifications to the rules and better explanations for confusing sections of the rules like attacks of opportunity - and the SRD is *not* going to include this material. The SRD will be, at best, a way of seeing what the new changes are and you will be able to infer how they were arrived at, but it will be difficult to learn or teach the game based on the SRD by itself. Indeed, the current SRD is this way.

Not to diss the SRD, but it is definately a poor man's replacement for the actual books. For those who have the existing core rulebooks it may prove to be enough, but there's no guarantee.

Personally, I'll be at least getting a PHB. The spine of mine was broken when I accidently dropped it 4 stories (Very few books survive that - and I'm lucky it didn't hit anyone). I'll probably give my current books to some crudgemudgeons who have thus far refused to move to 3e from 1e.
 

The BBS system EnWorld uses should date the posts on the thread. The words look different, but I **swear** I read all this before.

WotC is d*mned if they do, d*mned if they don't. With the internet, three years of feedback for **the** most popular RPG is an eternity. The number of players and comments from the gaming community must be magnitudes greater than those of playtesters.

In other words: RANGERS! (cough cough!)


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

ced1106 said:
The BBS system EnWorld uses should date the posts on the thread. The words look different, but I **swear** I read all this before.

WotC is d*mned if they do, d*mned if they don't. With the internet, three years of feedback for **the** most popular RPG is an eternity. The number of players and comments from the gaming community must be magnitudes greater than those of playtesters.

In other words: RANGERS! (cough cough!)


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^


It does date the posts on the thread. Look in the lower left of each post for Date and Time.

But yes, this thread is similar to many that have come before. I agree that WoTC can't win the hearts of all of its customers through its actions with the revision. I personally think it would be much worse if they only released a splat book with updates, requiring any new comers to the game to buy all three core books, then another book with updates, to play the game. And this would make it much more inconvenient to incorporate the changes, and we wouldn't get a better formatted Monster Manual.
 


shurai said:
Now, if I could just get the Master of Orion 3 people to release their game for Linux. *sigh*

-S

Just uninstalled it from my hard drive after playing it once. As a big fan of the first two, I was very disappointed. Check gamespot.com for my opinion and others, and be thankful that it was not ported to Linux. The good news is that I'm not addicted to yet another computer game and can focus on writing. :)

As for the on topic part of the thread, I have faith that WOTC will release the 3.5 material in the SRD, and that they will do it promptly, just as they did with d20 Modern.
 

Personally I'm a little bitter about 3.5. I mean WotC isn't really doing anything wrong by releasing a revision. However, I remain annoyed. The problem is this I'm not terribly fond of some of the changes I've heard about that they are enacting and so do not feel terribly compelled to purchase the new books which have very little bang for the buck for me. I'd be happy to stick with 3e. The problem is that already some people I game with are wanting to move over to 3.5. In a face to face group I could live with this, I could deal with because books can be shared, but I primarily game online and so having my own copy is pretty necessary, and as far as I'm concerned the SRD doesn't cut it. I kind of feel like I've a choice of shelling out money for new books or getting shoved to the periphery of the 3e community. This may seem silly to some of you, but still I have a certain feeling of dread associated with the coming of 3.5.


I wish I had the sense of excitement I had with the release of 3e, when I would check Eric's page everyday for the latest news. As it is the changes are enough to make me feel left out by not having it, but not enough to allow me to buy it without feeling cheated.


Anyway, perhaps I'm being irrational, but that is the way I feel.
 

I hope you all don't mind me saying something that everyone else has said before and will say again . . . after all, the way we influence a company is with the volume of opinion, which is created in a civil society by having lots of people say the same thing.

In any case, to Piratecat:

I think you're partly right, but I also think we both know that the situation is more subtle than you say. D&D is a depletable product, because books get lost, maimed, or destroyed (as we've seen on this very thread), and new people pick up the game. Most importantly, I think a lot of people get bored with the same old thing and desire a new game, or new supplements for the game they already play. I think this kind of business is enough to sustain a roleplaying company. Honestly, if Gilgamesh can still make money after five thousand years, then there might just be hope for the same ol' edition of D&D being successful.

Excellent story hour by the way! I live in Boston, can I join? : P

To jasamcarl:

First of all, playtesting is practically done for you thanks to all the bright, energetic people out there slaving away to make their games better. I'm not saying that it's easy or that it doesn't cost money, but what I am saying is that there's plenty of very good games out there that sell for that cost and less. Anybody ever play a game by those wacky Cheap Ass Games people? Remember that my point was that they would publish the revisions for $10, and still make plenty of money on those beatiful setting books and other supplements. These would obviously not need to be hardcover or in color, so the publishing costs would be small, by comparison. Given that the cost is likely in publishing more than development for this sort of thing, I think the savings would turn out to be pretty substantial.

Secondly, I agree that not everyone does think like me; I was merely introducing an obviously false assumption for the purposes of arguement . . . I spose it is a kind of egotism for me to assume that the world would be better if everyone did think like me, but is that so wrong? How am I supposed to respond when people say that if everyone thought like me something bad would happen?

Thirdly, I believe, pretty strongly, that usually the price of products is influenced more my market forces rather than the costs of the materials themselves. I don't know how much Wizards could charge for D&D and still make money, but economists usually say that the price of a product is determined not by the costs of making it but by what the market will bear. That means that if everyone demanded cheaper games or refused to pay, we'd get cheaper games. But that's irrelevant, you're wrong in a much more provable way: My point about what I'm willing to spend revolves around core rulebooks only, as I've said in two seperate posts. If I had the money (which some of 'me' would if everyone thought like me since some people have more money than I do), I would spend more money on supplements and settings material.

I'm sorry if I'm gettin snippy here; I think I'm being more than polite given that people are either insulting me or badgering me about opinions I don't really have in the first place.

Sheesh, I started this thread to say something good about 3.5e with regard to the SRD, whatever I may think of it otherwise. I guess people have trouble with complex opinions.

-S
 

shurai said:
I guess people have trouble with complex opinions.

Hey now - patience is a virtue. It'd be cool if we could talk about this without relying on blanket insults. That's not really fair, and it's not too cool - even when it feels like everyone else disagrees with you. Folks, please don't respond with insults in kind.

I do agree that 3.5 is going to make some folks who stay with 3.0 feel marginalized. I think it's inevitable, if not as pervasive as the shift from 2nd ed.

Shurai, thanks for the kind words. Drop me an email; if you're in Boston, you should get in on the next game day!
 

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