Re: Re: Asmodeus SHOULD be a god.
IMC, most arch-fiends are god-like powers. Eight of the Lords of the Nine are as powerful as gods, but not gods; they cannot grant spells, they do not have SDAs... but they have many of the same resistances, many of the same immunities, the same remote sensing, and some special powers similar to gods. Eg., my Lords have Hell's Fire, which is almost identical to Divine Blast.
There are some exceptions. My Asmodeus has always been a fallen overgod as part of a long, side-line story IMC. There is a similar entity that rules the Seven Hevens in the background, and Primus is also a similar entity. Demogorgon is The Abyss made manifest, while Orcus has risen to true divinity without some of the limitations (he doesn't have to worry about worshippers to exist, but he does have to keep them to maintain his divine status). These kinds of arch-fiends can grant spells, but there are caveats. Asmodeus, due to his condition in Hell, has to work through the Lords of the Nine. Additionally, these entities, IMC, have an agreement with the "true gods" to ensure that they do not poach worshippers. While gods are typically limited to one or two worlds (like half the Forgotten Realms deities), these Planar Lords exist virtually everywhere. They will have more than enough worshippers spread across the cosmos, so in most cases willing accept these contracts just so they're not fighting every god in existance for over poaching worshippers.
As I said before, it's possible to have these beings as gods or god-like powers without adversely impacting existing gods. I have my own pantheon of gods, for example. Three are LE and one is a greater LE god. He and Asmodeus are very aware of each other and, while they don't work together, are not at war and avoid getting in each others way.
Finally, I think if you're going to have a ruler of a Plane, or beings that have considerably more "real estate" than the typical god on a Plane, said being is pretty tough... at least as tough as a god. Additionally, these beings are the pinnacle of their alignment, perfect represenations of an Ideal. Again, to me that means they are god-like or gods.
As for fighting gods. Well, since gods are all statted now anyway, anyone using epic rules could conceivably get enough power to kill a god. I think it would be great to have a campaign run from 1 to 50+ levels with the ultimate goal of dealing with a god or god-like being. Heck, you could even start at 21st level and run a shorter campaign with the same goal... not as fun, but still an interesting option. I think the Lords of the Nine, the Demon Princes, the various gods, and all other god-like beings (Tiamat, Bahamut, Primus) can be statted, be grotesquely powerful, and still the ultimate focal point of a long-term, epic campaign. Of course, you could deal with their lackies from 10th to 20th level, the various Dukes, Demon Lords, or proxies, but to go after the big prize would be fun too.
You really need to check out the WotC Message Boards, particularly the Demigods and Deities board.AaronLoeb said:
IMC, most arch-fiends are god-like powers. Eight of the Lords of the Nine are as powerful as gods, but not gods; they cannot grant spells, they do not have SDAs... but they have many of the same resistances, many of the same immunities, the same remote sensing, and some special powers similar to gods. Eg., my Lords have Hell's Fire, which is almost identical to Divine Blast.
There are some exceptions. My Asmodeus has always been a fallen overgod as part of a long, side-line story IMC. There is a similar entity that rules the Seven Hevens in the background, and Primus is also a similar entity. Demogorgon is The Abyss made manifest, while Orcus has risen to true divinity without some of the limitations (he doesn't have to worry about worshippers to exist, but he does have to keep them to maintain his divine status). These kinds of arch-fiends can grant spells, but there are caveats. Asmodeus, due to his condition in Hell, has to work through the Lords of the Nine. Additionally, these entities, IMC, have an agreement with the "true gods" to ensure that they do not poach worshippers. While gods are typically limited to one or two worlds (like half the Forgotten Realms deities), these Planar Lords exist virtually everywhere. They will have more than enough worshippers spread across the cosmos, so in most cases willing accept these contracts just so they're not fighting every god in existance for over poaching worshippers.
As I said before, it's possible to have these beings as gods or god-like powers without adversely impacting existing gods. I have my own pantheon of gods, for example. Three are LE and one is a greater LE god. He and Asmodeus are very aware of each other and, while they don't work together, are not at war and avoid getting in each others way.
Finally, I think if you're going to have a ruler of a Plane, or beings that have considerably more "real estate" than the typical god on a Plane, said being is pretty tough... at least as tough as a god. Additionally, these beings are the pinnacle of their alignment, perfect represenations of an Ideal. Again, to me that means they are god-like or gods.
As for fighting gods. Well, since gods are all statted now anyway, anyone using epic rules could conceivably get enough power to kill a god. I think it would be great to have a campaign run from 1 to 50+ levels with the ultimate goal of dealing with a god or god-like being. Heck, you could even start at 21st level and run a shorter campaign with the same goal... not as fun, but still an interesting option. I think the Lords of the Nine, the Demon Princes, the various gods, and all other god-like beings (Tiamat, Bahamut, Primus) can be statted, be grotesquely powerful, and still the ultimate focal point of a long-term, epic campaign. Of course, you could deal with their lackies from 10th to 20th level, the various Dukes, Demon Lords, or proxies, but to go after the big prize would be fun too.
