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Thoughts on Fochlucan lyrist?
- Thread starter GwydapLlew
- Start date
Tsillanabor
First Post
In my campaign leaving the druidic order is punishable by death. Certain of the less moral members will hunt you down. So no learning druidic.
GwydapLlew
First Post
The argument over Druidic is actually an argument over two seperate issues.
1. The possibility to learn the Druidic language if you are not a druid.
2. The consequences of a druid teaching Druidic to a non-druid.
The RAW clearly indicate that you can learn Druidic if you meet the requirements that your DM sets forth (some require teachers, others don't). I would quote, but I can't access the SRD from work and my books are at home. Simpy put, if a druid could not teach Druidic to a non-druid, then it would not be listed as a violation of the druidic oaths under the Ex-Druid heading of the class. Likewise, you only need to put 2 (or 1, if it's a class skill) points into Speak Language if you find a teacher for the language. Similarly, the Loremaster class ability does not differentiate between secret languages, dead languages, or any other languages. It quite simply leaves that determination up to the DM.
The consequences? A druid that teaches Druidic to a non-druid loses their powers as detailed in the class description. Nothing states that an ex-druid cannot continue to teach Druidic - there is no mystical prohibition listed in the RAW. IMC, I would definitely put that ex-druid on a 'list of people who know too much' and I am fairly sure that the druidic order would take steps to make sure that no secrets can be spilled - whether those steps are a geas or murder is up to the individual DM.
As for the PrC we have been discussing, the flavor of the PrC indicates that a Fochlucan lyrist becomes a member of the druidic order, but their oaths are relaxed in regard to armor requirements. They are druids, although druids of a specific order. Unless you disregard the fluff, I would find it highly unlikely that the druidic order would teach their secrets to someone who learned Druidic through 'alternate channels' - although that would be an interesting character hook... "You have learned our secrets. You have shown wisdom and initiative. Join us ... or die."
1. The possibility to learn the Druidic language if you are not a druid.
2. The consequences of a druid teaching Druidic to a non-druid.
The RAW clearly indicate that you can learn Druidic if you meet the requirements that your DM sets forth (some require teachers, others don't). I would quote, but I can't access the SRD from work and my books are at home. Simpy put, if a druid could not teach Druidic to a non-druid, then it would not be listed as a violation of the druidic oaths under the Ex-Druid heading of the class. Likewise, you only need to put 2 (or 1, if it's a class skill) points into Speak Language if you find a teacher for the language. Similarly, the Loremaster class ability does not differentiate between secret languages, dead languages, or any other languages. It quite simply leaves that determination up to the DM.
The consequences? A druid that teaches Druidic to a non-druid loses their powers as detailed in the class description. Nothing states that an ex-druid cannot continue to teach Druidic - there is no mystical prohibition listed in the RAW. IMC, I would definitely put that ex-druid on a 'list of people who know too much' and I am fairly sure that the druidic order would take steps to make sure that no secrets can be spilled - whether those steps are a geas or murder is up to the individual DM.
As for the PrC we have been discussing, the flavor of the PrC indicates that a Fochlucan lyrist becomes a member of the druidic order, but their oaths are relaxed in regard to armor requirements. They are druids, although druids of a specific order. Unless you disregard the fluff, I would find it highly unlikely that the druidic order would teach their secrets to someone who learned Druidic through 'alternate channels' - although that would be an interesting character hook... "You have learned our secrets. You have shown wisdom and initiative. Join us ... or die."
Last edited:
Jubilee
First Post
Apologies for the thread necromancy here, but I was wondering if anyone could give some insight into how the Fochulan Lyricst actually plays? What do you do?
I'll be making a new 10th level character, as my poor little goblin duskblade got her head chopped off on a pair of 20's from a vorpal weapon at the end of last session, and I was thinking about going into Fochulan Lyricst.
It's an Eberron game, so I'm going to be an elf with a Dragonmark of Shadow, I think. I'm going to try to convince my GM to let my favored class for such an elf be rogue, and i'm planning to go Rogue3/Bard1/Druid1/Green Whisperer5, with my first level of Fochulan Lyricist being at 11th level.
I'll take Practiced Spellcaster for druid and bard, the least mark, and possibly song of the heart (+1 to inspire courage) for my first 4 feats. I'll have a +5 BAB, +7 fort, +6 ref, and +9 will. In combat, I'd do +2d6 sneak attack damage. I'll have the spells of a 6th level druid and bard, with a caster level of 10 for each. My bardic knowledge will be a +1 (plus whatever int), and a +5 if it's concerning plants, animals, or elementals.
I'm not really sure what I'll bring to the party or do during combat.
Thanks,
/ali
I'll be making a new 10th level character, as my poor little goblin duskblade got her head chopped off on a pair of 20's from a vorpal weapon at the end of last session, and I was thinking about going into Fochulan Lyricst.
It's an Eberron game, so I'm going to be an elf with a Dragonmark of Shadow, I think. I'm going to try to convince my GM to let my favored class for such an elf be rogue, and i'm planning to go Rogue3/Bard1/Druid1/Green Whisperer5, with my first level of Fochulan Lyricist being at 11th level.
I'll take Practiced Spellcaster for druid and bard, the least mark, and possibly song of the heart (+1 to inspire courage) for my first 4 feats. I'll have a +5 BAB, +7 fort, +6 ref, and +9 will. In combat, I'd do +2d6 sneak attack damage. I'll have the spells of a 6th level druid and bard, with a caster level of 10 for each. My bardic knowledge will be a +1 (plus whatever int), and a +5 if it's concerning plants, animals, or elementals.
I'm not really sure what I'll bring to the party or do during combat.
Thanks,
/ali
Xath
Moder-gator
I'm playing one right now, but to be fair, I stretched the rules to the point of breaking. Progression is:
Rogue 2/Wizard 5/Loremaster 2/Cloistered Cleric 1/Fochluan Lyrist 10
Or, if your DM doesn't believe that Lore and Bardic Knowledge are the same:
Rogue 2/Wizard 5/Loremaster 1/Prestige Bard 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1/Fochluan Lyrist 10
My advice to anyone is to never ever ever do this. Unless you love character maintenance. I had to plan out my entire skill point/feat progression from 1st to 10th level in advance, with nothing to spare. Also, I spend almost all of my time updating and maintaining my spell list. It takes me 20 minutes to figure out what spells I'm going to prepare for the day. It's ridiculous.
Power-level-wise, I was pretty under-powered for the first 10 levels. Now, I'm at or above par with the rest of the party.
Rogue 2/Wizard 5/Loremaster 2/Cloistered Cleric 1/Fochluan Lyrist 10
Or, if your DM doesn't believe that Lore and Bardic Knowledge are the same:
Rogue 2/Wizard 5/Loremaster 1/Prestige Bard 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1/Fochluan Lyrist 10
My advice to anyone is to never ever ever do this. Unless you love character maintenance. I had to plan out my entire skill point/feat progression from 1st to 10th level in advance, with nothing to spare. Also, I spend almost all of my time updating and maintaining my spell list. It takes me 20 minutes to figure out what spells I'm going to prepare for the day. It's ridiculous.
Power-level-wise, I was pretty under-powered for the first 10 levels. Now, I'm at or above par with the rest of the party.
Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
well
I think it's thematically appropriate for a Loremaster to learn druidic... they are all about secret and esoteric knowledge. It's pretty much the only sctick the Loremaster has, in fact.
But if I were the GM, I wouldn't let you cheese out of the requirement of having one level of druid to enter the FL prestige class.
Ken
I think it's thematically appropriate for a Loremaster to learn druidic... they are all about secret and esoteric knowledge. It's pretty much the only sctick the Loremaster has, in fact.
But if I were the GM, I wouldn't let you cheese out of the requirement of having one level of druid to enter the FL prestige class.
Ken
Squire James
Explorer
I feel the same... yes to a Loremaster learning Druidic (as long as he understands that some druids may try to kill him if he flaunts that fact), but no to faking one's way into getting a major prestige class requirement.
It's kinda like a paladin coming up with some complicated Helm of Opposite Alignment + Atonement scheme to gain a level in assassin without losing his paladin powers. I'd probably allow it, but consider it as tacit permission to trade in all paladin levels for blackguard levels as well...
It's kinda like a paladin coming up with some complicated Helm of Opposite Alignment + Atonement scheme to gain a level in assassin without losing his paladin powers. I'd probably allow it, but consider it as tacit permission to trade in all paladin levels for blackguard levels as well...
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