Thoughts on these classes?

[Nightdawn]

OK, I'm still narrowing down a campaign setting(it's coming down to Dawnforge, Planescape, Oathbound, or, yes, Scarred Lands), and now I'm compiling a list of classes for my players to choose from. I know that I'd have to pick up some extra books for them, but what do you guys think of the Swashbuckler and Hexblade from Complete Warrior, and the Knight from PHB2? And just those two books in general, as well.

Also, Dread Necromancer and Warlock, thoughts? As either PCs or NPCs.

 

[Thanee]

Swashbuckler is a nice class and adds something what the Fighter cannot cover that well.

Hexblade is not so useful in my eyes.

Knight is too videogamey.

Complete Warrior is alright. Not great, but has some decent stuff in it.

PHB II is a very good book.

Warlock is great and very useful both as PC and NPC.

Dread Necromancer I do not know enough about. But others seem to like it well enough.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nightdawn]

Swashbuckler is a nice class and adds something what the Fighter cannot cover that well.

Hexblade is not so useful in my eyes.

Knight is too videogamey.

Complete Warrior is alright. Not great, but has some decent stuff in it.

PHB II is a very good book.

Warlock is great and very useful both as PC and NPC.

Dread Necromancer I do not know enough about. But others seem to like it well enough.

Bye
Thanee

What about the Hexblade don't you find useful? I thought the idea sounded cool, does the execution of it suck?

And how do you mean by too videogamey for the Knight?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

What about the Hexblade don't you find useful? I thought the idea sounded cool, does the execution of it suck?

Hexblade doesn't work that well because its' abilities work only on single targets, and when there are multiple targets, they can run out of their Neat Trick pretty quickly and be pretty boring.

And how do you mean by too videogamey for the Knight?

Because it's basically a MMORPG off-tank. Not a real tank, because its ability to focus attention on it is lost when something else attacks it, so it's the guy who dies slowly enough while the rest of the group deals with the other stuff. I personally have no problem with it, but others do.

Brad

 

[Nightdawn]

Hexblade doesn't work that well because its' abilities work only on single targets, and when there are multiple targets, they can run out of their Neat Trick pretty quickly and be pretty boring.



Because it's basically a MMORPG off-tank. Not a real tank, because its ability to focus attention on it is lost when something else attacks it, so it's the guy who dies slowly enough while the rest of the group deals with the other stuff. I personally have no problem with it, but others do.

Brad

Hmm. I know it wouldn't stack up to a straight fighter in battle without it's neat trick, but how does the Hexblade compare to Rangers, Paladins, and Swashbucklers, in your opinion(which I've found the people I play with seem to prefer)?

And how tank-ish is the Knight? I have no problem with having an absolute tank in my game I'm going a little FFish with it anyway.

 

[blargney the second]

Hexblade is not so useful in my eyes.

I concur. It's an all-or-nothing class that becomes useless if you multiclass. All of its abilities are "save for no effect", and the saving throws stop improving if you don't take pure hexblade levels.

 

[Nifft]

Hexblade is interesting. I've seen it used in a lot of builds -- as a full-BAB entry into Dragon Disciple, for example. Never had one in one of my games, so I don't know how well it plays. On paper, it looks a bit weak.

Swashbuckler is bad. It's basically a three-level class. If you're okay with players taking three levels to get that one special ability, fine. But consider porting the Unfettered from Arcana Evolved instead.

Samurai from CW is terrible. It's weaker than a Fighter. Very sad.

Knight from PHB-II is okay for a PC, but as a DM I don't like it. How would the players react if they met a Knight NPC? "No, sorry, you don't get to pick who you attack. You have to attack this guy here. It's his special ability."

PHB-II has some great ideas and classes, and some really great Feats. This book makes it actually worth playing a Fighter. The spellcasters are good, too -- Duskblade is cool, Beguiler does his job like no-one else, and Dragon Shaman is a Marshal with good mechanics and decent flavor. The spells in the PHB-II seem better thought out than a lot of the spells in the Complete books.

For new fighter-ish classes, my favorites would be the Crusader, Warblade and Swordsage from Tome of Battle. They compare in strength to spellcasters.

- - - - -

If I were making a new game, these are the classes I'd make sure had a place (in addition to the usual Core classes):
- Binder
- Crusader
- Dragon Shaman
- Dragonfire Adept
- Favored Soul
- Scout
- Spellthief (weak but cool)
- Swordsage
- Truenamer (weak but cool)
- Warblade
- Warlock

Cheers, -- N

 

[Remathilis]

I love the swashbuckler class. Its excellent at representing light warriors, "rogues" who don't like to SA, and all manner of social-warriors.

Hexblades suffer a major blow because all their abilities are tied to class level, so You can't Multi-class or prestige class with them. However, a crafty one works well as a "de-buffer" and they make great antagonists.

Knights are all defense and have the ability to control enemies actions. They feel video-gamey due to all MMORPG warrior classes have "aggro control" and This class does the same in PnP. Otherwise, I think its a strong, well thought out class.

Out of all the other classes, I like Warlocks, Dragon Shaman, Favored Souls, and Scouts.

 

[Remathilis]

Swashbuckler is bad. It's basically a three-level class. If you're okay with players taking three levels to get that one special ability, fine. But consider porting the Unfettered from Arcana Evolved instead.

I've seen this before. Granted, its great abilities are 1-3 level, but there are some excellent abilities later on as well (lucky, acrobatic charge, the str and con damage) and good skills to boot.

What are these swashbuckler's doing after level 4? Don't say duelist, that is a poor PrC. Fighter loses SP, Rogues loses hp and bab.

 

[Agent Oracle]

I don't get all the Knight hate, it's a really straight forward class: the meat shield's meat shield.

Frankly, it's a good class: Great hit points, solid armor, straightforward advancement. it's main power (the challenges) aren't mind controll...

...

You know what? Every thread the Knight gets mentioned in dissolves in the same manner. Side 1. "OMG Knight is teh MMORPG!" Side 2: "No, not really. Look at the details" Side One: "Still don't like it. Goodbye."

It's kinda formulaic at this point.

Frankly, i've played one, i've GM'd for one. I've run one as a NPC.

THEY ARE NOT BROKEN.

as a DM I don't like it. How would the players react if they met a Knight NPC? "No, sorry, you don't get to pick who you attack. You have to attack this guy here. It's his special ability."

It doesn't work like that, pretty much... ever. See, in the first place, The players get a will save, furthermore, they can still attack other targets as the opportunities present themselves. Finally: it's NOT mind controll. even if the Big bad is focused on killing the Knight, he can still hit the whole party if the opportunity presents itself.