Thoughts on these classes?

OK, I'm still narrowing down a campaign setting(it's coming down to Dawnforge, Planescape, Oathbound, or, yes, Scarred Lands)

Dawnforge is a vastly over-looked and very tasty setting. It has some great classes too. I like the binder and its view of weapons of legacy. Also their dwarf smith class kicks ass.

Planescape can always work its way into a setting. How can you knock a whole system that may or may not be there depending on the whims of the portals.

Oathbound is good but its got a particular ascetic that never appealed to me.

Scarred Lands is a nice big setting with lots of books out. Unless you are going to live their war between titans and gods it's almost so big that its generic again. That may be a good thing, I'm not sure.


Sigurd
 

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I just ran a simulated game on my own using a knight, hexblade, and warlock to see how they played out -- here are my thoughts. I've also played a hexblade (for less than one session) and dm'ed a warlock.

Hexblade: At first level, it's too easy to forget to use your curse power, which leaves you as a featless fighter with no shield or heavy armour proficiency. The same problem occurs if your curse power doesn't work. I like the mettle ability, and the flavour, but it feels lacking... I'd have liked it to be more akin to a paladin in power structure. Alternately, it would make a good prestige clas with a bit of tweaking.

Knight: My only real complaint was that I'd have liked to see one or two more skills on the skill list. The knight's challenge was easy for me to forget, but that was probably because I was handling 5 pcs and the npcs as well. I think it stacks up well.

Warlock: The ability to use invocations and eldritch blast every round is nice. This class doesn't replace an arcane caster, but is a nice supplemental character.
 

Swashbuckler - as noted, its a 3 level class. Overall weak. The sword saint is a uch better swashbuckler type. Just change the abilities that go off Wisdom to go off Intelligence.

Hexblade - another weak class. Mike Merls commented on why exactly its bad (they were overly conservative on an arcane/warrior hybrid), ignoring that if you want to have a guy who fights and curses people, a cleric is an infinitely better choice. He posted some fixes on the WOTC boards that make it more or less playable.

Knight - Theres much whining over one ability, and ignoring everything else that makes this class good. Overall I like it.

Warlock - again, a little underpowered. Its supposed strength doesnt come into play as much as you'd expect. When the rest of your party is out of spells, you tend to stop anyways, so he's giving up real power for a theoretical edge.

If you're going to be picking up some extra books, magic of incarnum works very well for an outhbound game. The world is literally leaking magic at the seams. I'd remove the cartoony looking visuals but keep everything else the same.
 

Swashbuckler is a great class... for three levels. After that, you can smell a "real roleplayer" or someone new to the game by the number of levels they take above three. ;) Seriously, though, it fills a niche, but doesn't do a terribly good job of it.

Hexblade is basically an arcane, debuffing version of the paladin. Since debuffs are weaker than buffs and arcane spells generally weaker than divine, and the paladin gets more side goodies... yeah. Once again, interesting and flavorful, but weak.

Knight won't necessarily live up to the idea the name of the class conjures, but is a very good class. It's only downside? One of its main mechanics is CR-based (ugh). Nonetheless, it's worth inclusion in virtually any campaign.

Complete Warrior is a fairly average entry in the Complete series. It has two of the most famous offenders for "brokenness," the Frenzied Berserker and the Hulking Hurler, but in truth both are overhyped. The Frenzied Berserker is an anti-party character; essentially, it's not for PCs. To become broken or even powerful, Hulking Hurler requires Large size, a PrC from the Miniatures Handbook, and one poorly worded rule in the back of Complete Warrior. The rest of Complete Warrior trends toward the weaker side of things, particularly in the three base classes.
My opinion of this book has dropped over the years. in particular, the PHB2's high-level fighter feats and the Book of Nine Swords' alternate warrior classes have made many of the once-nearly-required-for-fighters PrCs and/or feat combos in CW irrelevant.

The PHB2 is almost certainly a better buy than CW at this point, although IIRC it carries a higher MSRP. The difference between these two books says a lot about how much more WotC's designers 'get' 3.5 than they did when CW came out. Fighters go from back bench to borderline all-star with the additions in PHB2, while the other core classes get options that are interesting and balanced without actually upping their power.

Dread Necromancer can be broken wide open by combining it with a feat, IIRC, giving you unlimited free self-healing. Which might actually be a plus for an NPC ;). Or, heck, for a PC if you want to escape per-day balancing. Anyway, it's otherwise a nice enough class and won't cause any other problems.

Warlock is a bit weak if you follow the reccomended average encounters per day, very weak if you average 1-2 encounters, and strong if you average more than 4. It's a well designed class across the board, although a bit tied to its flavor considering how universal its mechanics are. As an NPC it will usually be a) easy to run and b) weak, the latter because most NPCs show up for only 1-2 encounters in a given day.
 

ehren37 said:
Hexblade - another weak class. Mike Merls commented on why exactly its bad (they were overly conservative on an arcane/warrior hybrid), ignoring that if you want to have a guy who fights and curses people, a cleric is an infinitely better choice. He posted some fixes on the WOTC boards that make it more or less playable.

Linky?
 

Addendum to my knocks on Complete Warrior:

There's basically no reason for a DM to buy this book unless he a) doesn't want to spend, IIRC, $10 more, b) desperately wants the Frenzied Berserker for an NPC or c) already has Arcana Evolved and is looking for more.

Arcana Evolved has the Champion (substantially better done than CW's Samurai), Warmain (better than Samurai, solves the high-level fighter problem by being... a good high-level fighter), Mage Blade (better fighter-caster than Hexblade in basically every way), and Unfettered (vastly superior Swashbuckler). All of these classes go to 25th level and have interesting abilities the whole way up. AE also has a PHB's worth of other classes and races (all of which have racial classes, too), equipment that matches up with the optional equipment in CW, a few monsters (at least two of which are arguably extra PC races as well, if you're into that), and a decent selection of new feats.

If you're considering CW, I can't suggest Arcane Evolved strongly enough; it's everything CW is and much more, better done. Especially in concert with the PHB2.
 

MoogleEmpMog said:
Addendum to my knocks on Complete Warrior:
*snip*

My main concern about the Mageblade is that it basically requires incorporating a new magic system into your game. Does anyone know of a Mageblade rebuild that uses the existing magic system?
 


Kafkonia said:
My main concern about the Mageblade is that it basically requires incorporating a new magic system into your game. Does anyone know of a Mageblade rebuild that uses the existing magic system?

Well, particularly if you're just using the mageblade, it's no more 'adding a new system' than the warlock is, and less than the XPH classes.

Still, I don't see any reason the class wouldn't work if you let the player pick any one of the core spell lists.
 

Siguard,

There's more to the world than just Gods versus Titans. It's just the fact they are the more interesting of the lot. (Not to knock my all time favorite psionic villains, the Slaracerians. ;) )

Psion,

Which knight base class did you find appealing and what source was it?
 

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