Thoughts on these classes?

[Psion]

I don't get all the Knight hate, it's a really straight forward class: the meat shield's meat shield.

Frankly, it's a good class: Great hit points, solid armor, straightforward advancement. it's main power (the challenges) aren't mind controll...

...

You know what? Every thread the Knight gets mentioned in dissolves in the same manner. Side 1. "OMG Knight is teh MMORPG!" Side 2: "No, not really. Look at the details" Side One: "Still don't like it. Goodbye."

I don't think they are broken and I really don't care about real or alleged MMORPG-inheritance.

I just think they are fundamentally unappealing as a class, and I feel like their meat-shield aspect sort of took a back seat to modeling a knight. I am much more interested in knight classes that model honor and knightly codes.

The knight's been done elsewhere, and better.

 

[Psion]

I've seen this before. Granted, its great abilities are 1-3 level, but there are some excellent abilities later on as well (lucky, acrobatic charge, the str and con damage) and good skills to boot.

What are these swashbuckler's doing after level 4? Don't say duelist, that is a poor PrC. Fighter loses SP, Rogues loses hp and bab.

I think unfettered is a better, more flexible swashbuckler. But after the daring feats in Complete Scoundrel, they seem a little more interesting to me. I think I'm willing to give them a chance.

 

[Nifft]

It doesn't work like that, pretty much... ever. See, in the first place, The players get a will save, furthermore, they can still attack other targets as the opportunities present themselves. Finally: it's NOT mind controll. even if the Big bad is focused on killing the Knight, he can still hit the whole party if the opportunity presents itself.

Well, it works like it says in the text, I'd assume, and the text pretty clearly says: "Creatures that fail this save are forced to attack you with their ranged or melee attacks in preference over other available targets." There's a paragraph describing what would negate or break this condition, but baring that, it works like it says. You fail the Will save, you don't get to pick your target.

Don't get me wrong: in the hands of the PCs, this is cool.

It's only when used against the PCs that I feel it might not be cool. Call it aversion to tactical railroading if you'd like.

I'd allow it as a class, and be very careful using it as an antagonist.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

I think unfettered is a better, more flexible swashbuckler. But after the daring feats in Complete Scoundrel, they seem a little more interesting to me. I think I'm willing to give them a chance.

I'm very eager to see Comp.Scoundrel and revise my opinion.

Thanks, -- N

 

[|)ar|{]

Swashbucklers are ok, I don't think they add enough on their own to justify a base class seeing as a number or fighter/X classes will give you the same feel.

Hexblade is underpowered so if your characters want to play one I'd allow it. The PHII has a nice varient that makes them better.

I like Knights but they do have a bit of a MMORG kinda feel. Their code of honor system can be a pain to work with as a DM but can provide some nice RP'ing opprotunities as well.

Warlock are unique and players love them but they can be overpowered if you play games with more than two fights a day. I woundn't want to deal with them in a high combat game but in any other type of game they are fine

Dread Necromancer are kinda too evil for me and my group and I have ever only used them as NPC. If you are starting before lvl 6 I can see using them if not then there are other classes that cover them.

 

[Andor]

I'm a fan of flexible classes.

The Psi-Warrior is utterly flexible. I could make a dozen different psiwars all completely different from each other.

The Samurai (The OA one, not that CW abortion) is a very sound class. Stong, skilled, flexible. It's the best take on a D&D knight yet printed IMNSHO.

I like the hexblade, but it needs some work. Ditch the stupid alignment restriction for starters.

The swashbuckler class sucks. It needs the canny defense feature from Duelist PrC. I'd replace it with unfettered too.

The Knight I don't have an opinion on, although from the sound of it 'Champion' would be a better name for the class.

Dreadnecromancer I know from nothing.

Warlock I like. Flavorfull and simple. Good for beginning players.

 

[Particle_Man]

Swashbuckler - nice skills, good fluff, weak on the crunch.

Hexblade - good fluff, also weak on the crunch. Recomend alternate class ability from PHB II. Also, don't bother with "save or else" spells - just use the curse to help your wizard/cleric buddy cast *his* "save or else" spells. There is a dragon magazine article with "Hex" feats that might help out. Quick way to get into Dragon Disciple or Arcane Archer, if either of those float your boat.

Knight - very much a like it or hate it class. Good tank (d12 HD, heavy armor, what's not to love?), but some find its main ability a bit unbelievable. Has good will save instead of good fort save.

Dread Necromancer - no idea

Warlock - Complete Awesome! Great flavour, simple to use (no spell slots or spell points to keep track of), and a nice UMD ability to help it out at higher levels. Complete Mage has more goodies for it (prestige classes, invocations, items)

 

[Nightfall]

*cheers the fact Scarred Lands made the cut* Warlock and hexblade make excellent PC choices since they can be like "Scions" of Mesos.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Swashbuckler is a good class that suffers from 3 level dip syndrome and not really ahving a capstone ability that makes people say , "WOW"

Hexblade is just weak. The curses are cool, providing the target does not make its save and lives more than a round or two. Both of these seem really iffy in most games. Their spells are ok, but a bard is better, and the save bonus is nice, but overall I can do better with a cloak of resistance for a few K gold.

Knight is too difficult to understand. I read through its abilities three tiems and did not get it. Ltater I did , but three tiems is too much for a core ability. Also too many saves.

Complete Warrior is excellent, with a lot of good stuff, including some fighter prestige classes taht really expand the fighter.

PHB II is a very good book. Excellent.

Warlock breaks the spell paradigm, and thus is very hard to deal with in a game. I prefer not to use it, like Incarnum, Tome of MAgic, and Book of 9 swords.

Dread Necromancer is a bit of amystery to me, but so many optimizers love it so it must have some power. I jsut don't own the book.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Warlock's a nice blaster option, though you may want to consider grabbing Complete Mage to expand the options for Warlock players (including a celestially-powered Warlock PrC--in a way, it's sorta like what the Blackguard is for Paladins, but reverse AL-wise).

Dread Necromancer's OK, but IMHO, it's in the same line as Beguiler & Warmage--a limited specialist class with slighty better combat abilities and the ability to cast spells in armor (as well as having a few other non-wizardish class abilities). It's nice, but it can really pigeonhole a character spell-wise. It's almost like a specialist sorcerer with one or 2 other abilities tossed in for measure.

Knight's a nice option. I really like it since it's another d12 HD core class option, and one that a player can have a Lawful PC of. It makes a nice other option in comparison to the barbarian class.

Swashbuckler's cool, & I'd go for them, but there's a fair number of folks who think it doesn't go far enough. Don't be surprised if some of your players think the same thing.

Since you mentioned Dread Necromancer (and thus, Heroes of Horror), I'd really recommend the Archivist core class from that book (or, you can get the class details for free from the D&D website, under the Previews for Heroes of Horror). A wizard version of a divine spellcaster, able to learn any divine spell (as long as it's on a scroll) & add it to their book, and has a nifty Dark Knowledge ability that's sorta-kinda like Bardic Knowledge, though more conflict/combat-oriented. And, IMHO, makes an ideal multiclassing mix to go with Wizard, and a very workable option for a Mystic Thaumaturge.