D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

[Imaro]

Another silly article, from the standpoint where we play DnD anyway. We never tie color to region, regardless of what anything in a book says. We never even take the time to describe someone's complexion unless it's an important part of the story; "Her skin is so pale you wonder if you could see through it in bright light" or "You can't tell if his skin is dark, or if he is encased in a constant shadow that seems to move more than he does" - you know, supernatural things. If a player wants a character with a particular appearance or ethnicity, it's simply there. No book will ever dictate any of these situations at my table, period.

I'm curious... Do you mean "we" as in mostly white males who get plenty of diverse representation in D&D? And yeah in the actual books skin color is often tied to setting... we're not discussing your homebrew we're discussing an actual product.

As far as culture, that's no one's job but the DM's. If you want a culture to matter, you gotta make it matter. The hints of flavor are there, it's up to the person presenting the world to his or her players to determine how much that culture stands out and shines, or fades into the backdrop. I suppose, on a smaller scale, a player could take up the mantle of responsibility by playing someone from a particular culture, and highlighting its differences to the group. Either way, there is no 'deficiency' in faerun, and there is no point for such a heavy focus on -any- particulars in regards to real-world relations.

Two mistakes here... First... if I buy and adventure path/mini-campaign it should be judged on what it contains, not what I can ignore and change. Second, this isn't a book that describes Faerun... there's no current book for Faerun in 5e so while you could claim there's no deficiency in Faerun, that doesn't speak to the deficiencoies or merits of Chult as it is portrayed in

As far as "Mad Monkey Fever", it honestly never even occurred to me until I read this article, and I'm from the deep south. There've been people my whole life using garbage language like that, and so I've pushed myself away from it as much as possible. I'm actually annoyed at the article for even bringing that concept back to my mind, if only briefly.

Again I'll refer to the first question I asked before commenting further...

 

[MechaPilot]

I'm not a person of color. Also, while I purchased ToA, I have yet to read it through (I'm still working on converting the Yawning Portal adventures to my Tenesia setting, and I've been dealing with a doubled-up class load and providing home hospice care for my father).

However, I did read the article and I can definitely say that "mad monkey fever" just sounds bad. I'll definitely be changing that name. Also, I have to confess a lack of contact with spoken African languages, and I feel like any attempt I might make to affect an African accent or to imitate the kind of clicks described in the article would seem silly or inappropriate at best, and may even be borderline offensive.

That said, I doubt any of my players would take offense. They know me well enough to know that I don't believe a person's race, nationality, gender identity, sexual orientation, economic status, etc. says anything meaningful about the quality and value of a person. But, it's also worth noting that all the players currently at my table are white. That wasn't intentional. I've had bad experiences with new people met through hobby shops, so I only game with friends (and friends of friends), and the truth is that while I've met many nice people of color at school and on the job I haven't met any that shared my nerdy interests.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Imaro]

Oh I absolutely agree with this, but, my point still stands. They can do that, they can gripe all they want, but they aren't actually contributing to push forward meaningful change. And you know what. I'll even give you all your points on how they don't need to be designers to make the game/movie/song/whatever. EVEN THEN, there are still ways of providing meaningful change relevant to her job. She can contact the designers, and sit down with them and talk about the situation, and no short snippits at a convention don't qualify since is such a big issue. Even emails directly to the people that run wizards, mearls, the people at hasbro. Has she sent emails explaining the situation? Or is she just hoping that the higher ups will stumble upon the article. I'd bet money that other than the article shes done NOTHING to actually further the cause for legitimate change about the stuff she's whining about.

Be the change you want to see in the world. Talk is cheap, take action.

No your point doesn't stand... their "griping" is exactly how you bring awareness and pressure (if necessary) about issues to a company. They want more care taken by WotC in their portrayal of non-European cultures... bringing this to the companies attention is the way to enact that change. Claiming they should do it themselves or dismissing their complaints (because that is what you are doing) as griping is short-sighted and misses the point.

 

[Azzy]

Personally, I'd like to hear more opinions from PoC about this, and get their perspective. Any conversation on this subject without their input would be mostly masturbatory and less than productive.

 

[Sunseeker]

Oh I absolutely agree with this, but, my point still stands. They can do that, they can gripe all they want, but they aren't actually contributing to push forward meaningful change. And you know what. I'll even give you all your points on how they don't need to be designers to make the game/movie/song/whatever. EVEN THEN, there are still ways of providing meaningful change relevant to her job. She can contact the designers, and sit down with them and talk about the situation, and no short snippits at a convention don't qualify since is such a big issue. Even emails directly to the people that run wizards, mearls, the people at hasbro. Has she sent emails explaining the situation? Or is she just hoping that the higher ups will stumble upon the article. I'd bet money that other than the article shes done NOTHING to actually further the cause for legitimate change about the stuff she's whining about.

Be the change you want to see in the world. Talk is cheap, take action.

It's her right to whine about it if she wants to. I'm fairly certain we all do quite a bit of whining about WotC happenings on these very boards without taking any action of our own, so lets not sit around and be judgemental hypocrites. The fact that you can't see what she might also have done about this does not mean she did nothing, assuming as much and using it to discount whatever she does have to say publicly as whining just strikes me as hypocrisy.

 

[akr71]

Let me address the main crux of both of these posts, because IMO claiming you shouldn't be able to criticize or critique something unless you yourself can do it is just silly and absurd.


Or they just aren't writers, game designers, etc. there's a very big barrier to entry otherwise we wouldn't pay for this stuff we'd all be successfully publishing our own stuff as our day jobs. What you're asking for here is akin to saying if you don't like a videogame then create your own... or if you don't like a car build your own. It's perfectly reasonable to critique something without being able to create said thing yourself. Most movie critics don't make movies even though they critique them, sports analysts don't necessarily play the sport they critique and so on. So yeah claiming you should make your own or shut up... doesn't really hold any real water.

Hold on a second! I NEVER told anyone to shut up. I never said the author should not criticize WotC or expect them to work harder to be inclusive and culturally sensitive and I'm certainly not trying to silence anyone's voice. I even went out of the way to state, right from the beginning that my opinion on someone else's claim of cultural insensitivity is irrelevant.

I simply stated that the power of D&D is that you can make your own world, or take an existing setting and adapt it to reflect whatever you choose. I DM in the Realms, but I twist, change and adapt things all the time to fit whatever I'm trying to convey to my players. I'm not a professional writer or game designer, so it isn't really that hard. To compare running a D&D campaign to creating a video game or a building a car is absurd.

However, I fully support your right to disagree with me and respectfully point out when I might be misinformed or an insensitive ass!

 

[Dausuul]

Oh I absolutely agree with this, but, my point still stands. They can do that, they can gripe all they want, but they aren't actually contributing to push forward meaningful change. And you know what. I'll even give you all your points on how they don't need to be designers to make the game/movie/song/whatever. EVEN THEN, there are still ways of providing meaningful change relevant to her job. She can contact the designers, and sit down with them and talk about the situation, and no short snippits at a convention don't qualify since is such a big issue. Even emails directly to the people that run wizards, mearls, the people at hasbro. Has she sent emails explaining the situation? Or is she just hoping that the higher ups will stumble upon the article. I'd bet money that other than the article shes done NOTHING to actually further the cause for legitimate change about the stuff she's whining about.

The article contains direct quotes from Chris Perkins. So, first off, you're completely wrong. But even if you weren't, the writer has still done something: Raising the issue and building awareness in the community that there is a problem. That is a contribution.

 

[robus]

I haven't read Tomb of Annihilation, and I have no plans to buy it, so I don't know how well the article's criticisms apply in context; but assuming that it presents the material fairly, its conclusions are reasonable. I looked up Graeme Barber's review at https://pocgamer.com/2017/10/13/tomb-of-annihilation-review-part-1-chult-in-5e, which is sharply critical of the way the setting was executed.

I've also been unhappy with the way that Chult is entangled with other regions and lacks sufficient agency to act as an entire setting on its own. I really dislike the way that the PCs are air-dropped in at the start and all the rest of it.

Thanks for linking to that review - quite an eye-opener and clicked with some things I'd noticed and not been able to name.

 

[Imaro]

Hold on a second! I NEVER told anyone to shut up. I never said the author should not criticize WotC or expect them to work harder to be inclusive and culturally sensitive and I'm certainly not trying to silence anyone's voice. I even went out of the way to state, right from the beginning that my opinion on someone else's claim of cultural insensitivity is irrelevant.

I simply stated that the power of D&D is that you can make your own world, or take an existing setting and adapt it to reflect whatever you choose. I DM in the Realms, but I twist, change and adapt things all the time to fit whatever I'm trying to convey to my players. I'm not a professional writer or game designer, so it isn't really that hard. To compare running a D&D campaign to creating a video game or a building a car is absurd.

However, I fully support your right to disagree with me and respectfully point out when I might be misinformed or an insensitive ass!

How long have you been running D&D? And again we are talking about the product... not what you can change the product into... right?