Thoughts on Vampire: The Masquerade 5th edition?

[ccs]

This new hunger mechanic sounds like we'd have enjoyed using it in our games 20 years ago. Of all the house rules we implemented I wonder why this never occurred to us?

 

[GreenTengu]

I wonder if it was really so impossible to revise Ravenos and Tzimisce enough to put them in the core book. I had a particular fondness for those clans. I am glad the Followers of Set made it into the game though, they were my favorite.

 

[Staffan]

Sadly, I ain't played it wither, but I'd LOVE to. The mechanics look solid and the lore is fun and dark (occasionally TOO dark. Freaking Chechnya...). I want to give the Duskborn a spin, especially.

Now, maybe they could also get W5 and M5 out as well? Mage 20th looks fun, but these mechanics seem a bit labyrinthine.

There's a Werewolf 5th edition being done by Hunter's Entertainment (who also did Kids on Bikes and the Altered Carbon RPG). I don't know if they'll adapt the V5 system to Werewolf stuff, or if they'll do something different with it. So far nothing's been said about Mage, but then again the RPG business is generally running at a far slower pace these days than in the 90s.

 

[ProfessorDetective]

There's a Werewolf 5th edition being done by Hunter's Entertainment (who also did Kids on Bikes and the Altered Carbon RPG). I don't know if they'll adapt the V5 system to Werewolf stuff, or if they'll do something different with it. So far nothing's been said about Mage, but then again the RPG business is generally running at a far slower pace these days than in the 90s.

I hope they use Storyteller, at least for cross-compatibility's sake. And I hope M5 is going to be a thing. Just imagine what the Virtual Adepts are doing in the 2020s? Imagine how malleable the Consensus is probably getting these days? Imagine a game that's both fun to read AND easy to play? Seriously, CharGen in M20th ALONE is a chore.

 

[Rʌvɘŋ]

I've only played V20, but I loved playing it and I've been wanting to get back into VtM after the reveal of Bloodlines 2, but I've heard some shifty things about 5th Edition, is it worth it to grab it or should I pass?

 

[blailton]

I did not like. I will continue to play Revised.

I think the disciplines and the power of vampires in general have greatly nerfed, making me feel like I was controlling a human with increased abilities rather than a vampire.

The xp rate you gain follows a glacial pace, and the most powerful you can get (level 20 in d&d or other endgame equivalent) is not big deal.

I feel that the system imposes many limitations on character creation, to the point that, after the chargen is over, I feelt that the character created was not mine, it was not invented by me. For example, being obliged to have at least one Touchstone (human being which you have to defend); can only organize attributes, skills and disciplines in a format established by the system, be obliged to take two points of flaws (and receive nothing in exchange), etc.

I find the presentation of the book ugly. The majority arr photos instead of drawings. Text written in three columns; the same paragraph that change color in the next page; information scattered throughout the book in a non-intuitive way, etc.

There is a lot of useful information missing. for a book that aims to be a gateway for new players, it has pages informing the reader useless information, like, what the dice rolls, the number of turns and circumstances the player can have their characters bodys frozen, and what rolls to make to resist this. On another page, information on how the player's vampire can dress, what colors, and what clothes to wear in which environment. Meanwhile, not a page about the Tzimisce clan.

Unlike some people here, I didn't like hunger dice. My personal taste is more inclined to tactical, dynamic thinking.

I found the system involving willpower recovery, relationship map, different blood types of different people who may or may not give different bonuses for a limited amount of time to be complicated and unnecessary.

I missed Nature and Behavior and the comments of each clan about each clan.

I missed the elders, even though their disappearance has been retconed recently.

I missed Sabbat.

I didn't like the new Diablerie rules.

I didn't like the Second Inquisition.

I didn't like Anarchs.

 

[willrali]

Played it extensively. It’s good. Mechanically much better than older editions of Masquerade. (I still think that Requiem is better, but V5 has all the old kooky purple prose: anarchs, sabbat, antediluvians, blah blah blah. People like that stuff.)

The silly white wolf nomenclature (storyteller, troupe, chronicle, scene etc) is still ridiculous after all these years.

If your ST is good and not stingy, you’ll progress fast and have a solid, interesting monster to play.

Just be aware: this isn’t for the faint of heart. The themes are dark and violent. There’s a lot of sexual and sexualized violence here, a lot of nonconsent and loss of bodily autonomy. The system is designed for your vampire to fly off the handle and do mass murder and gross sexualized body horror stuff without you having a say in it.

Your ST can handwave away all the feeding stuff and minimize the grossness, but that’s despite the system, not because of it.

I love Mage and think it can be a fabulous game, but I don’t think I’d play ascension again. I’ll stick to Awakening, which is a truly excellent evolution of the game. I never liked the White Wolf werewolves so meh.

 

[WillpowerTX]

I know we have a few White Wolf people on this forum, but the games mostly only get brought up in passing. I am curious what people's reactions have been to 5th edition Vampire and what you think about the possibility of Werewolf and Mage 5th edition.

Blailton makes some fair points in that v5 does nerf vampires considerably in mechanics especially as your percentage chances of passing routine checks and higher are much reduced. Couple that with the Hunger dice mechanics and it is problematic with smaller dice pools being very weak indeed. It plays out that characters are much weaker compared to humans, especially gifted humans than in other editions. As a consequence (desired by creators?), I do everything possible to avoid having to roll dice via RP, and there is some good in that. Nevertheless, it seems that my desire to play VtM is much reduced because as it stands now, a gifted human Second Inquisition with good equipment is a stronger character with a lot less problems to deal with and I would rather spend time advancing a story than having to feed so often because of a 50% chance to increase hunger every time I use a discipline requiring even a single rouse check. So wake up and hunger has a 50% chance to go from 1 to 2, use most disciplines and you have a 50% chance to go from 2 to 3 and now you are suddenly rolling 3 Hunger dice which is half the dice in a 6 dice pool so far too many messy criticals of bestial failures to draw attention to yourself. Couple that with the Second Inquisition and all the vamp detecting gear and unlife becomes more like a basic survival game than anything else, and it shouldn't have to be the Storyteller needing to protect the PC's from the rules as written to advance the scenes and chronicles! The pendulum just went too far the other way from V20 in my opinion, and diff 3 tasks should take 7-8+ dice pools to have a better than 67% chance to succeed!

Otherwise, pretty good stuff and more coming too, so maybe there is yet hope. But if I had to bet money, mine would be that Bloodlines 2 won't play to the percentages of V5 rules on any normal difficulty or it just won't be fun at all. And if it is, the characters that do well will more likely be pretty one-dimensional or mediocre to poor if trying to do even a few things which is sad for a game with the richness and diversity of prior editions.

 

[WillpowerTX]

I know we have a few White Wolf people on this forum, but the games mostly only get brought up in passing. I am curious what people's reactions have been to 5th edition Vampire and what you think about the possibility of Werewolf and Mage 5th edition.

Found an in depth and insightful comparison of V20 versus V5 and their relative playability, a good read: Mechanics and Character Creation in Vampire: the Masquerade (V5)

 

[MGibster]

As a consequence (desired by creators?), I do everything possible to avoid having to roll dice via RP, and there is some good in that.

I think it's desired. You're not supposed to have players roll unless failure might result in something interesting. I've only run one Vampire campaign, but there were times I had a hard time with that. I'd have a player roll for something silly only to realize I shouldn't have done that.

Nevertheless, it seems that my desire to play VtM is much reduced because as it stands now, a gifted human Second Inquisition with good equipment is a stronger character with a lot less problems to deal with and I would rather spend time advancing a story than having to feed so often because of a 50% chance to increase hunger every time I use a discipline requiring even a single rouse check.

The PCs in my game were generation 10 and hunger was hardly ever an issue. But there were a few times when hunger went up very quickly due to a series of unfortunate rolls.