Threatening Unarmed?

[dcollins]

The Sage has asserted that unarmed characters do not naturally threaten the area around them.

That really doesn't totally jive with the core rulebooks, because (a) nowhere does the PHB state that being "armed" is a requirement to threaten an area, and (b) PHB p. 128, in the note for disarm/grapple/trip, notes these attacks can be used for AOOs (which only makes sense if the unarmed person threatens an area to take the AOO, and clearly Improved Unarmed Strike does not modify these attacks in any way).

 

[Deset Gled]

I don't know how relevant it is, but I do remember that the reason the PHB gives for an unarmed strike causing an AoO is becuase the attacker has to move into the square of the person they are attacking to hit them.

This would lead me to believe that a person cannot threaten an area with an unarmed strike (without IUS), because they can only attack in an area that is in the square they occupy, and they would not be able to move into another persons square with an attack of opportunity.

 

[AuraSeer]

[...]the attacker has to move into the square of the person they are attacking to hit them.

I believe this applies only to creatures who are Tiny or smaller. Creatures of that size have 0 reach, so they can't hit anything outside their own square.

Small and Medium creatures do have 5' natural reach, so they can use unarmed strikes against adjacent creatures.

 

[dcollins]

I don't know how relevant it is, but I do remember that the reason the PHB gives for an unarmed strike causing an AoO is becuase the attacker has to move into the square of the person they are attacking to hit them.

The PHB doesn't say anything of the sort... with the exception of it being one of the results after a successful grappling attack.

 

[Stalker0]

The PHB doesn't say anything of the sort... with the exception of it being one of the results after a successful grappling attack.

Hmmm, its got to be somewhere, because I thought unarmed strikes didn't threaten as well.

 

[dcollins]

Hmmm, its got to be somewhere, because I thought unarmed strikes didn't threaten as well.

I invite you (or anyone else) to find it and quote the page here.
I'm very certain that it's not part of the core rules.

 

[Caliban]

While I'm fine with this, and it's my general take, is there a place where this is specifically stated?

Nowhere in the core rules.

According to the core rules, you threaten any area into which you can make a melee attack.

According to the core rules, an unarmed attack is a melee attack.

According to the Sage, you don't threaten the area around you if you are not "armed". The core rules don't stipulate a difference between being "armed" and "unarmed" when it comes to threatening an area.

 

[Stalker0]

I can find a lot of inneuendo, but it points in both directions.
Here's what I've found.

PHB Pg. 122

Making an AOO: An AOO is a single melee attack.

pg. 123
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee WEAPON...


Unarmed strikes aren't weapons, or else they would be armed strikes, like a monk has.

But then I found
Pg. 135, Dealing Subdual Damage

you can use a WEAPON that deal subdual damage, including an unarmed strike...


That makes it sound like unarmed strikes are considered melee weapons. Making it sound like unarmed strikes do threaten.

BUt then

pg. 140
Attacks of Oppurtunity:
...An unarmed attack does not provoke AOO from toher foes...nor does it provoke an AOO from an unarmed foe.

Armed Unarmed Attacks: ...Not only does a monk not provoke an AOO when attackin an armed foe, but you provoke an AOO from a monk if you make an AOO against her.


So in that context, it sounds like being unarmed does not threaten.


Damn, this issue used to be so clear cut.

 

[AuraSeer]

Stalker0: your page 140 quotes seem to be irrelevant. The first explains that an unarmed attack on an armed foe allows that foe an AoO. The second notes how this effect is changed by a monk's Improved Unarmed Strike ability. Neither piece says anything at all about threatened area.

As for unarmed strikes not being weapons... well, check the equipment list.

 

[Stalker0]

Stalker0: your page 140 quotes seem to be irrelevant. The first explains that an unarmed attack on an armed foe allows that foe an AoO. The second notes how this effect is changed by a monk's Improved Unarmed Strike ability. Neither piece says anything at all about threatened area.

As for unarmed strikes not being weapons... well, check the equipment list.

Your right Aura, like I said none of thing I posted was conclusive, and it pointed in both directions.

Well for right now I'll concede that unarmed strikes does threaten an area, although it seems wrong to me, I'm almost positive there's somethign in the book that says otherwise.