Throat Slit?

[Stormborn]

Suppose a PC sits down in a barber's chair. The barber decideds to slit the PCs throat with the razor while shaving him (the barber is a paid assassin, is under a spell, is possessed by a demon, whatever).

What do you allow the PC to do? Sit there and die? Make a reflex save for half damage? Make a sense motive check and then a reflex save? How would you handle this?

(If not absolutely 100% deadly I may use this tactic on a PC. it is inspired by one of the NPCs for GR's Denizens of Freeport.)

 

[UltimaGabe]

Treat it as a Coup de Grace. If the PC is in a situation where he trusts the Barber with his life (which he is, considering he's letting him get within an inch of his head with a knife), then he'd be considered helpless for purposes of Coup de Grace (so a PC couldn't just walk up to a bad guy and do it unless the bad guy has no problem with the PC bringing a knife within an inch of his head). So roll damage with this razor (treating it as a dagger, I suppose?) as if he rolled a critical hit, and allow the PC a Fortitude save, DC 10 + damage dealt. Pretty deadly, but possible to survive.

 

[Bauglir]

Well first off the PC in question is not helpless (unless they're strapped into the chair or something) - so a coup de grace is out of the question.

How about giving the PC a sense motive check to see the attack coming; if they fail it then the attack is an automatic critical hit (also a sneak attack if applicable) - if they pass, then perhaps an automatic hit, or a roll to hit a prone, probably unarmoured target for non-critical damage?

Re: Ultimagabe - being unaware of hostile intent is not the same as being helpless. The situation is functionally identical to sneaking up on someone unawares, and making a melee attack..

 

[Sejs]

Well first off the PC in question is not helpless (unless they're strapped into the chair or something)

I'm gonna disagree with you there. The character is voluntarily letting someone run a blade across their face and neck, trusting them to give them a shave rather than... you know, open them up like butchered hog. The only real difference between the shaving and the throat slitting is angle of the blade, some pressure and intent.


The PC is letting the blade be put to his throat, trusting the person using it to groom him rather than kill him. He is choosing to put himself in a situation where he's helpless. Helplessness/qualification for CDG doesn't have to be inflicted by an external agency; it can just as easy be a decision by the person to not defend themselves in any way.


The only difficulty I have is that CDG is a full round action, and basically the throat-slitting would be a supprise-round kinda deal. It would work if the slitter in question had the feat from S&F that lets you CDG as a standard action rather than a full-round. Death Blow, I think it's called - not quite positive on the name. In any case, you could do that, or you could use the assassin's death attack feature if the baddie had levels in a class that granted it.

 

[mikebr99]

Well, if the barber has any sneak attack ability... check for suprise, and go from there.

If the barber is actually the assassin PrC... then again, use the suprise round, and the Death Attack mechanic.


Mike

 

[swrushing]

Some D20 games have a version of what is called Extremely Deadly Situation.

Basically, when the situation demands it, the GM can treat it as an EDS and when that happens the damage is not just hit points. Games that use con damage often apply it straight to con.

I would rule this an EDS and make the attack a CDG, although i would tend to allow the character a sense motive before things went that far.

However, i really must say, while this scene should be a lethal one, that does not make it a good one to add for the campaign. The star of an action film does not get dead in mid movie by a barber. If such a scene is added, he spots the look in the barber's eye out of the opposite mirror and reacts at the last second or maybe someone walsk in just before the barber pulls his throat slit.

So, while i would NOT want the system to mechanically prevent this from being lethal by putting the wall of hit points in the way, i would also not want to include this scene to its full conclusion in most any game.

 

[Kerrick]

If you don't want to go the CDG route, simply rule that he does an automatic crit, and the PC is now bleeding (1-2 Con/rd), and also choking - can't speak/cast spells, and will suffocate in 10 rounds. Assess a heavy penalty to rolls for shock/blood loss (say -4), and it would still give the PC a fighting chance.

 

[Bastoche]

I would allow a sense motive check with some penality. After all, he sat on the chair meaning an implicit "failed sense motive". Unless, the player specify that he look for a trusty barber...

If the sense motive is successful, I would allow the character to roll initiative. If he wins, he's ok (not flat-footed anymore) and can take an action to stand up and defend. If he fails initiative, the character is flat-footed and the assassin has his sneak attack + death attack ability from assassin class.

I would certainly also consider him prone (+4 to hit)

If the sense motive fails, he's surprised and the assassin has a free surprise round to make his death attack. In case the assassin fails to kill, on first normal round, roll initiative. If the player lose ini, the assassin has another sneak attack (well as many as he is allow for his BAB) and then the character can react. The assassin is not allow a second attempt to death attack. If the character win init, then he can stand up and so on.

I would probably allow a CDG, but that's up to DM judgement IMO and not a rule issue per se.

 

[Bauglir]

Consider this: A rogue with a ring of invisbility manages to move right up behind a victim undetected. He then carefully (and invisibly) reaches around and cuts his victim's throat. The victim is not defending himself in any way, since he is unaware of the rogue's presence. Is this situation a coup de grace?

If not, what is the defining difference that makes the barber scenario a coup de grace, while this is not?

 

[Stormborn]

Based on the Denizen's of Freeport book the would be assasin is a Ept 5/ Asn 3 and has the special abilities of death attack (DC 14) and +2d6 sneak attack and is armed with a +2 Straight razor (1d4+3 damage, equivalent to a Kukri). The blade is likely to be poisoned (but let's disregaurd that for a second).
So:

PC sits down in chair.
Barber starts the shave.
(Now a Sense Motive Check? And if so what reaction?)
Barber then attempts to slit PCs throat.
PC makes FORT save against death attack or dies instantly, asuming the killeffect was intended.
If the throw succeeds the attack is a normal sneak attack.
But, in this case is it neccesary to make an attack roll? Is it an automatic hit? I would say yes, but is it an automatic crit or CDG?
Hit damage would be between 7 and 19 points.
Crit damage would be between 16 and 26 points, since Sneak Attack damage isn't multiplied.
None of which is likely to kill the intended vicitim, a 6th level Ranger.

(All the more reason for the assassin to use poision.)

Am I getting all this right? The question remains the nature of the damage done to the victim.