Throw out XPs!

ChrisHaines

First Post
I have always disliked the XP system in D&D for two reasons. The first reason is that it seems to always emphasize rewarding the kill, resulting in bloodthirsty players. I realize that 3.5 has offered XP rewards for overcoming challenges, generalizing the term to include tasks other than killing, but it always seems to get reduced to defeating your enemy. The second reason is not all players advance at the same time, leaving some of them in the dust and feeling inadequate. Again I realize that it is up to the GM to fashion a variety of challenges to accommodate every class within the group, but someone usually ends up not feeling balanced within the party.
My solution is to eliminate the XP mechanic all together. This presents a few problems, how to raise levels, how to make magic items, and how cast spells with XP requirements. The first problem is solved by the GM determining when the players should be rewarded with a level advancement. I like to raise all the players at the same time, as long as noone displayed behavoir that was not conducive to the game. The other two problems I have remedied with a new feat.

Create Magic Items
Prerequisite - Spellcaster
Benefit - You can create magical items and cast spells that normally require an amount of XPs with Creation points. You recieve a number of Creation points each level you have as a spellcaster equal to 10 times your level. So a 1st level wizard gets 10 Creation points and a 3rd level Sorcerer/2nd level Cleric gets 90 Creation Points. If this feat is selected after characer creation, you recive Creation points from previous levels gained as a retroactive benefit.

"So what do you do with these Creation points?" you ask. They are used to create magic items. This means that all of the Item Creation feats in 3.5 have been combined into this one feat. I still enforce the level requirements for different types of items as follows; Scrolls and Infusions at 1st, Wondrous Items at 2nd, Potions at 3rd, Wands at 4th, Arms and Armour at 5th, Rings at 7th, Rods at 9th, and Staffs at 11th. The cost to create these items in Creation points depends on the following:

Scrolls and Infusions - 1 Creation point per Spell Level of the Spell + 1 Creation point for each additional caster level above the minimum required.

Wondrous Items - 1 Creation point per 1,000 gold pieces of the items market value (rounded up).

Potions - 2 Creation points per Spell Level of the spell + 1 Creation point for each additional caster level above the minimum required.

Wands - 5 Creation points per Spell Level of the spell + 1 Creation point for each caster level above the minimum required.

Arms & Armour - 5 Creation points per +1 Enhancement.

Rings/Rods/Staffs - 1 Creation point per 1,000 gold pieces of the items market value (rounded up).

For spells that require an XP cost, spend 1 Creation point per 100 XP needed (rounded up).

In addition to the Create Magic Item feat, I have introduced a new skill that is required to make magic items, Craft (Magic Items). This skill only represents the characters ability to imbue an item with magic, not the creation of the item itself. The DC to create a magic item is 20 + the number of Creation points required to make it. High DC's may require a character to gain the assistance of other spellcasters to create the item. The time required to create the item is one day per 1,000 gold pieces of the market value of the item (rounded up). If the check fails, the time, spells, and gold are wasted. If the check fails by more than 5, then the time, spells, gold, and Creation points are wasted. The gold piece cost to make an item is half of its market value.
I had to design an additional feat in case a character ran out of Creation points.

Extra Creation Points
Prerequisite - Create Magic Items
Benefit - You receive double the normal amount of Creation points at the level you select this feat. So a 5th level wizard who selects this feat gains 300 Creation points instead of 150.

The only other instance that 3.5 used XPs was when characters multiclassed unevenly. I remedied this situation as follows:

A 20% penalty equates to the player losing the first feat gained by the new class as well as losing one skill point per level gained in the class.

A 40% penalty equates to the player losing the first two feats and two skill points per level, with a minimum of one skill point per level gained.

A 60% penalty equates to a player losing the first three feats and three skill points per level, with a minimum of one skill point per level gained.

I have become obsessed with molding D20 into what in my mind is perfection. I realize that if I get bogged down in the mechanics, I'll never actually have fun roleplaying. Tweaking the system has become another hobby for me. I'm interested to hear anyones opinions on these changes. I have lots more where that came from.
 

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Looks interesting...
You recieve a number of Creation points each level you have as a spellcaster equal to 10 times your level. So a 1st level wizard gets 10 Creation points and a 3rd level Sorcerer/2nd level Cleric gets 90 Creation Points.
Did you mean to say that the second character example would have 50 CP, not 90? (3+2)*10=50, not 90....

Or does this work the following way:

Char Level ...|... CP awarded each Level
-------------------------------------
.... level 1 ...|... 10 CP
.... level 2 ...|... 20 CP
.... level 3 ...|... 30 CP
.... level 4 ...|... 40 CP
.... level 5 ...|... 50 CP
------------------------
.. Total CP ...|... 150 CP

Nope, still not 90 CP... :(

Okay, I must not be getting something with your rules. I'll admit, math isn't my stongest ability, but I can't seem to get 90 CP from a 5th level character. Other than me being totally confused by the CP advancement, it looks great! ;) Have you playtested this yet? I'd be interested to know how your group responded to this alternate advancement system... Did they lynch you? :lol:
 

I don't give XP per monster.
I give XP based on how difficult the overall challenge (roleplaying or other wise) and how much the story line was advanced during the hour of play was.
Then I total it up at the end of the session and give out XP awards (50 times current level if hour offered almost no challenge, 75 times for moderate/standard challenge, 100 times for very difficult).
I also hand out individual XP awards to players for paticuarly note worthy actions. This results in PCs leveling up every 12-18 hours of play averarging around 15.

Obviously this system requires my players to put alot of faith in my ability to judge the difficulty of things as a DM. So it wouldn't be for every group.
This system has the added advantage of not having to change the way item creation works or XP costing spells or other things work.

As a side note my players still are fairly blood thirsty and still fight battles simply for the sake of fighting (provoking fights, or solving things by the sword rather than through negotiation). Though they don't go to battle seeking (as in going and looking for some random critter to kill) to simply level up cause they know it won't help them level up faster.
 

The point system works like the chart you displayed. Basically you get 10 times your new level in Creation points each time you advance a level. This could be adjusted for different results if you wanted the creators to have less or more potential.
My players responded well to it. I think they really liked advancing at the same time as everyone else. I would try to make advancement more goal oriented, leaving the means to achievement up to the players. As stated though, they tend to resort to combat. That is one of the main draws of roleplaying, and d20 makes combat much more thrilling with all of the mechanical tactics involved.
Thanks for the opinions!
 

ChrisHaines said:
The cost to create these items in Creation points depends on the following:

Scrolls and Infusions - 1 Creation point per Spell Level of the Spell + 1 Creation point for each additional caster level above the minimum required.

Wondrous Items - 1 Creation point per 1,000 gold pieces of the items market value (rounded up).
A scroll of resistance level 1 useable once costs 1 creation point. A cloak of resistance +1 also costs 1 creation point but the cloak can be used every day.


ChrisHaines said:
Potions - 2 Creation points per Spell Level of the spell + 1 Creation point for each additional caster level above the minimum required.
A potion of cat´s grace useable only once costs 4 creation points. Gloves of dexterity +2 for the entire rest of the life cost also 4 creation points.

ChrisHaines said:
Wands - 5 Creation points per Spell Level of the spell + 1 Creation point for each caster level above the minimum required.

Arms & Armour - 5 Creation points per +1 Enhancement.
A sword +1 is magical for the entire rest of it´s existence. A wand has only 50 charges.

ChrisHaines said:
Rings/Rods/Staffs - 1 Creation point per 1,000 gold pieces of the items market value (rounded up).
Rods and staff have charges but except the ring of three wishes many rings have permanent effects without costing a charge.
 

Looks like it still needs some tweaking. I hadn't reaaly looked at it that closely, neither had my players. Oddly enough, they hardly ever look for ways to min/max the system. I'll have to look more closely at all the item groups. Maybe make permament items have a higher base cost. I wonder if the same problem occurs when spending XPs?
Thanks!
 


I personally have never really bothered figuring out how to give out the 'proper' amount of XP. (First of all when I look at it it seems rather confusing) I tend to hand out a fairly standard amount per session, and if something particularily impressive happens then things will be rewarded accordingly. I always try to reward PC's different amounts based on how well their character did. And do this to encourage roleplaying, teamwork and good thinking. However I will never allow characters to level up at different times simply by insuring that when I hand it out everyone will level. ( So the wizard is 300 xp away and the Fighter is only 100 Xp? Doesn't matter much if the wizard gets 475Xp and the Fighter gets 350Xp the next time Xp is given out.)
And yeah item creation can be annoying, dropping behind Xp and all and the threat certainly needs to be there but I've always felt that As long as the creator's arn't seriously abusing their ability, then no one feels bad when everyone levels the same time.
Besides which : you just read your first scroll in combat gain 50Xp.
And oh: for that beautiful trip gain 50Xp.
 

In every game I have ever played the DM has given out XP for good roleplaying as well as killing (in my games I give out less XP for kiiling minions then is usual, XP is given for good RP and creative solutions to combat).

I usualy have one or two people up a level, but this rarely lasts more then a game (people with a lower level gain bonus XP to even them out).

I've never seen magic item creation used in one of my games.... infact I cant recal ever seeing it in any game I have been a part of.
 

Ibram said:
In every game I have ever played the DM has given out XP for good roleplaying as well as killing (in my games I give out less XP for kiiling minions then is usual, XP is given for good RP and creative solutions to combat).
Ditto.

Ibram said:
I've never seen magic item creation used in one of my games.... infact I cant recal ever seeing it in any game I have been a part of.
IMC some use the creation feats: mostly scribe scroll ...
 

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