D&D 4E Throwing ideas, seeing what sticks (and what stinks)

[Garthanos]

They actually ARE gated on level, but only for 'color' reasons

I am finding myself look at doing that ... they have a level when they appear but the cost to learn may be different.

For instance the athletic one for sequestering an item by throwing it very high is rather mythic but its functional effect is not really that potent.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I am finding myself look at doing that ... they have a level when they appear but the cost to learn may be different.

For instance the athletic one for sequestering an item by throwing it very high is rather mythic but its functional effect is not really that potent.

lol, yeah, that seems like a superman thing, but certain crazy mythical Irishmen could easily pull it off...

 

[Garthanos]

lol, yeah, that seems like a superman thing, but certain crazy mythical Irishmen could easily pull it off...

Indeed, the crazy Irishman or Tarzan in a Jungle scene (for laughs) it gets tangled precariously balanced in the canopy... or in an elvish city in the complex overhead. Eventually falling just when the hero needs it.

 

[MoutonRustique]

From phone (hard to add structure and such)

What if the game was limited to ONE encouter power use and ONE daily power use no matter how many you had?

I'd also add an encouter use of an interrupt power.

You'd get an extra use of both (not the interrupt) when changing tier.

Wonderinf how that kind of game play would feel... ?

 

[Garthanos]

To get started : DEATH TO ABILITY SCORES (sort of...)

Base Hit points
could be 10 + con mod + highest stat mod.

 

[Garthanos]

TO DR OR NOT TO DR - AS AC*
[sblock]
The quasi-infinitely-looping question of AC as Damage Reduction, my potential take on it :
Precepts:
- use fixed damage on the DM side of things
- keep variable damage on the PC side of things
- use fixed damage reduction values on the DM side of things
- use variable damage reduction on the PC side of things
- default damage reduction (armour, level) is "resist all"
Implementation :
- level = one die of damage reduction
- armour = one die of damage reduction (based on type of armour)
- armouring "effects" = "perhaps" one die of damage reduction (may also be subsumed into the "class" portion)
- resist X values converted to die value (1d8, 2d6, etc.)
- use average + level for monster dmg (8+2xlevel? ... ask "Yak of GitPG" for what that should be - he's impressive at "math cruching"!)
- use "what feels right" for monsters (might have to adjust hp...)

Consequences :
- might take a bit longer to calculate final damage
- brings in "armour as DR" w/o overhauling the whole thing
- we get an additional "lever" to play with (magic items, effects, itemization, etc)
- might "require" a table of reference for die values (if modifications in-game became a thing - note to self : it will.)
- adds in a layer that is fairly superfluous (the proof being: it's not in there and the game works fine)
- multiple attacks are reduced in relative potency a bit (but I'm not seeing this as a bad thing in 4e...)

Justifications/concessions :
- I like it!
- It's not that hard to use
- It can give the illusion of player agency during the enemies' turn
- It does require a bit of fiddling with monster hp (unless...?*)
*increase PC damage by +level?
- I'm not a fan of the "multiple attacks = king of dmg" thing going on right now, something that hits multiple attacks harder than single attacks feels like a good thing to me.
- I really want dragons (and galeb dhurs) with very high resist values that "require" special items or preparations to be able to pierce (I know I can do this now... I know... but this way, it's "baked in" and well... ... ...yup, that's the whole of my argument.)

Options :
- remove AC as a defense**
- replace "target other defense than AC" as "ignore DR for this attack" in pertinent powers
- attacks target Fort or Ref (defender's choice)***

***this would mesh very well with my goal of having more attacks simultaneously target many defenses : hit AC to deal dmg, hit Fort to push, hit Will to daze, hit Ref to ...

**We'd use Ref for most "touching", Fort for "power through", Will for... well, Will is pretty obvious...
[/sblock]


That's my "blargh" for today.

Rune Quest is Passive Armor == Damage Resistance.
with 6 being plate and 1 being a light leather...

But they also have Active Defenses.

Defense == Reflex derived Armor Class rather like the D&D armor which penalized attack rolls directly (more like average of Int and Dex)

Plus Parry rolls that defend independently to the above which are rather directly Dex Derived arguably this is there advancing hit points.

of course in RQ strength only significantly affects damage in combat and is damn near worthless compared to Int and Dex.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Armor as DR has been working great in HoML. You need to keep it to SMALL numbers though! Otherwise it gets very tough for less powerful attacks to have an effect, and that can create issues. For the record, I totally disposed of AC, so there are 3 defenses. This VASTLY improved many things in the game. AC was always sort of the odd man out of 4e defenses, now all attacks primarily target either your durability, your quickness, or your willpower.

For the record, I have the DR from armor apply to ALL damage types. Its simpler, and I just figure its worth the simplicity and can be justified however you like (guys clad in metal have better morale, and pretty much anything you throw at them is going to be at least partly deflected by all that armor and padding).

 

[Garthanos]

Armor as DR has been working great in HoML. You need to keep it to SMALL numbers though! Otherwise it gets very tough for less powerful attacks to have an effect, and that can create issues. For the record, I totally disposed of AC, so there are 3 defenses. This VASTLY improved many things in the game. AC was always sort of the odd man out of 4e defenses, now all attacks primarily target either your durability, your quickness, or your willpower.

For the record, I have the DR from armor apply to ALL damage types. Its simpler, and I just figure its worth the simplicity and can be justified however you like (guys clad in metal have better morale, and pretty much anything you throw at them is going to be at least partly deflected by all that armor and padding).

RuneQuest also had critical hits evade the armor... entirely

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

RuneQuest also had critical hits evade the armor... entirely

Hmmmmmm!

 

[Garthanos]

Honestly, the more I think about it, I would just hack Dungeon World with the following:

1) Add Healing Surges, Second Winds, and class moves that trigger the use of surges in combat.

2) Give all monsters stuff that front-loads their payload (eg first damage is either best of 2 dice or +1d6 or something).

* Those two should engender the "Rally Narrative" that is quintessential 4e combat.

Wonder if you could use a feature from 13A to help that out as well each round up the number on a die and add that to player character attacks and defenses its more subtle perhaps but should combine nicely with the above as things go more in their favor later in the fight.

Bloodied condition abilities that for players get stronger when they or their target are bloodied also seem important.

One of those things basically thrown out by 5e.