"Ties go to the defender" - Where does this fallacious rules citation come from?

[airwalkrr]

I often hear people quote "ties go to the defender" as a way to resolve tied results of rolls. However, the PH clearly lays out that in the cases of opposed rolls, ties go to the character with the higher bonus (PH 64). Let alone that it seems absurd to claim ties go to the defender on things when such a precedent does not exist in the case of AC (i.e. if you "tie" someone else's AC, you hit them, they don't dodge you). Where does this fallacious notion that "ties go to the defender" come from? Does it come from anywhere besides common practice?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its probably from a variety of sources...my first guess would be the old board game, Risk. In it, ties go to the defending army.

 

[lukelightning]

I had that misconception myself! I first heard it during a grapple situation, which, as you pointed out, is wrong. "In case of a tie, the combatant with the higher grapple check modifier wins. If this is a tie, roll again to break the tie."

First I discover that "Jubilex" is really "Juiblex" and now this! I wonder how many other misconceptions I have.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I wonder how many other misconceptions I have.

Well, despite being a lawyer, Dannyalcatraz is actually a nice guy.

Back on topic, the misconception is doubly wrong because in the previous edition, ties go to the attacker. The defender basically "set the DC" and merely meeting a DC is sufficient for success. Fortunately, that rule was changed in 3.5.

 

[Aaron L]

I think the "tie goes to the defender" rule was also quite common in the various conflicting 2E splatbook rules variants.

 

[danzig138]

First I discover that "Jubilex" is really "Juiblex"

Who said what now? It's not Jubilex?

 

[Twowolves]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea of "ties go to the defender" predates... well, most any game. The idea is that in true warfare, with all other things being equal, defending is a better position in which to be. And, a defending force could hold off a much larger attacking force, often more than three times its size. The axiom found it's way into many, many games, since it was sort of a "given" in rule design.

But obviously, not in all rules systems!

 

[Stalker0]

The idea is that in true warfare, with all other things being equal, defending is a better position in which to be.

But obviously, not in all rules systems!

I think in modern warfare that's certainly not true. Initiative and surprise will often win against equal or superior forces.

But I'm glad to hear all of this...I was still using the old ruling about attacker always winning ties and didn't know it!!

 

[lukelightning]

Who said what now? It's not Jubilex?

Exactly! And I learned it is sahuagin, not sahaugin, casting sleep is a full-round action, and that you can't take a 5' step in a swamp.

 

[Quartz]

I often hear people quote "ties go to the defender" as a way to resolve tied results of rolls.

Perhaps these people used to play the Hero system? IDHTBIFOM but IIRC it's explicitly stated there.